Does anyone have any insights into this digital press? There appears to be around 15-20 deployed in the US. I'm trying to objectively look at the market and price tag on the press to figure out why it would be attractive considering its cost (approx $1.5M). I'm not sure how cost is justified at 300 ppm/55 b2. I know some will say VDP and that might be right, but I can't imagine setting up the feeder for x stock for a 50 sheet job with out incurring considerable cost. This machine functions much like a traditional press so setup time is not as drag n drop as a copier. I do believe this technology is the future, but I'm struggling with penciling out the ROI. I'm assuming it's a non impression based service agreement plus consumables.
Konica Minolta KM1 / Komori Impremia IS29
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TheProcessIStheproduct
Well-known member
ROI falls apart, just like indigo 10000 + 12000, but when you raise the ROI and TCO the sales person just talks about some kind of high margin unicorn job that doesn’t exist to make the numbers not look utterly ridiculous or a case study on Shutterfly. Take any normal commercial job that is smaller then 13x19 and copy shop with a $25k color laser printer will make you look silly with a very similar looking output and you are paying $25k a month to finance that 1.5 million dollar press
I'm not downplaying the technology as I do think UV inkjet has some strong advantages when it comes to specific substrates. Early adoption of a technology isn't cheap. Shutterfly is a rather unique case (accounts for their purchase of four KM1s). Most decent digital presses coming in at less than 1/10 of this are supporting rather impressive substrate handling of upwards to 400-450GSM and accommodating 27"+ lengths.
TheProcessIStheproduct
Well-known member
Komori was very hungry to get an install of their OEM KM1, they put one into Worth Higgins for free and only charge clicks, that is one way to make the ROI work
AP90
Well-known member
So are you guys saying that the only payoff on these is to have a large volume of speciality work such as VDP? Would a company not benefit from having one of these to run booklets day in and day out? I understand a run size of 10k+ booklets would not be beneficial, but if you have a bunch of booklets in say the 40-60 page range and with runs under 10k, would you not be able to make the machine profitable?
I don't see why booklets would be a strong point for a press like this. It doesn't support mixed media nor does it support inline finishing. In realty the press is not even close to a conventional press in speed. A conventional sheet feed press runs at 12-16K sheets/hr vs 3k. In fact if you compare it with the top speed digital machines it is approx twice as fast (65 sheets/m 12x18" vs 55 b2 20x29). Looking at a booklet application you could only get 2 up on a b2 sheet so the extra space is pretty wasted. Bottom line.. you could buy two of the fastest digital copiers with inline booklet maker and multi paper drawer for continues operation and have finished booklets flying out. Oh yeah, and have money to run those machines for a single shift a year for 3 years. I'll take option 2 please.
I would be looking at at océ i300 for this application or possibly roll fed inkjet. You can get the i300 with inline booklet makers
I300 doesn't even come close to the quality of the KM1
It's not even in the same league.I know I'm a little late here, but my company is running the Impremia. The quality is great and the support from Komori has been really good. We print many different papers and some plastics and change over is a snap. The real downfall is the consumables. The ink prices are outrageous and the #1 factor in determining the cost of any given job on this machine. I will never see 10,000 of any booklet coming off this platform as my 40" presses will crush that. Were we see the fit is in small run (under 800 stitched booklets), small poster runs and display work. We do specialize in short run perfect binding and wire-o/plasticoil bound books, so the ability to run multiple up book blocks makes sense for us. Come off the press, trim and bind, no collating, no keeping piles of individual pages in order.
It's a great machine quality wise, but hard to make a case for ROI for traditional commercial print work.
It's a great machine quality wise, but hard to make a case for ROI for traditional commercial print work.
AP90
Well-known member
Basically it sounds like it is just another digital press, and that it is not that cost effective with ink prices being outrageous as you mentioned? The jobs you mentioned (other than some poster sizes) can be fulfilled on any digital machine correct?
Basically, but I haven't seen any other digital platform with the same quality of print or color gambit. And with the UV ink, we don't have issues with cracking like we've had on our Nexpress or other toner based machines and we don't have issues with scuffing, even on matte sheets. This allows us to print book covers and not have to put an aqueous or UV coating on to protect the print.
It's not going to be commercial static print machine, too expensive and too many other platforms out there for longer runs and newsletter/manual/flyer type work. But if short run variable and high end quality is called for, then it shines.
The KM-1 was sold in one instance to a mail house. High volume personalized mailers requiring high quality output. The deciding factor was the ink cost. We were lower than most competitors and still output a high quality print. The unit has been installed for over 8 months. The client is very satisfied with the unit. They calculated there own ROI that showed a positive return. They pay as you go for parts and ink, there is no "click" charge.
Digital Anthony
Member
From what i see when i go to a printshop with the KM1, it is a top quality print, but for 2 million you need to run it almost 24/7. Also uses a lot of power compared to others like the FujiFilm 750. They have a problem with ink congealing in the ink lines going into the print heads, along with the silicone oil used for the impression drum getting into the air system. Both issues has the press down for a day at a time. i did see it run for almost 48 hours without a problem. The power is a big issue like the HP 12000. at least 3 x 3 phase power. To much power. Paper profiling is a must and takes a technician and half a day.
We've had the KM-1 for 3+ years now and for the most part it has been great. Of course there are pros and cons, the set up time to get the first piece out is a flash compare to our old Heidelberg offset press and the color consistency is dead on from the first to last piece. Quality issues we have on some jobs are stitch lines, depending on the coverage, most of the time can be eliminated with adjustments but sometimes you have to live with it. The other issue we are trying to figure out is wrinkling of the sheet on the drum when we run 60 or 70lb coated text stock. We charge by ink coverage, low, medium, high and there are 3 print modes that you can select from Economy, Standard and Rich to determine how much ink will be use for each job. Most of our jobs are done on economy mode which uses the least amount of ink. Maintenance is a lot less then offset presses, there are only 3 main consumable items, filters, ink and wipe cloth and they are pretty expensive.
Very late to this topic but its relevant for me now so any new info on KM-1 or KM-1e. Known problems? Etc.
We are looking into buying a KM-1e. We are all hyped, especially me as an digital operator, maintenance guy, designer (from time to time) etc! We would probably transfer 50 or more % of our jobs from offset B2 to KM1 and have offset for longer runs. We will (or would) still have our KM 6085 with IQ unit which is BTW great for simple (design-wise) quick stuff like business cards, runs under 500 pcs and stuff like that. Form what I have seen, output prints are top notch. When buying this kind of machine you go for quality, faster (compared to offset) changing of jobs, runs 1000-10K, and so on.... We are having all our post processes done by specified machines, just like in offset which we also have and from my experience its the way to go.
So as I'm reading this forum I see there are some problems... normally. Are they deal buster or can you live with them in the end?
Does any body have an info what is the maximum print/and sheet output? How is the registration on double-sided prints on longer runs? quality on uncoated papers? On demo prints it was flawless, but I want to hear it from actual operators. Also is the maintenance really low and the cost of ink that high? What RIP does it use and does it come with it (when paying 1M and more it would kind of suck not having a RIP in the bundle).
Are you or someone you actually know satisfied with having KM-1.
We are looking into buying a KM-1e. We are all hyped, especially me as an digital operator, maintenance guy, designer (from time to time) etc! We would probably transfer 50 or more % of our jobs from offset B2 to KM1 and have offset for longer runs. We will (or would) still have our KM 6085 with IQ unit which is BTW great for simple (design-wise) quick stuff like business cards, runs under 500 pcs and stuff like that. Form what I have seen, output prints are top notch. When buying this kind of machine you go for quality, faster (compared to offset) changing of jobs, runs 1000-10K, and so on.... We are having all our post processes done by specified machines, just like in offset which we also have and from my experience its the way to go.
So as I'm reading this forum I see there are some problems... normally. Are they deal buster or can you live with them in the end?
Does any body have an info what is the maximum print/and sheet output? How is the registration on double-sided prints on longer runs? quality on uncoated papers? On demo prints it was flawless, but I want to hear it from actual operators. Also is the maintenance really low and the cost of ink that high? What RIP does it use and does it come with it (when paying 1M and more it would kind of suck not having a RIP in the bundle).
Are you or someone you actually know satisfied with having KM-1.
The short answer is no, they are not impacting printing speed. But they are impacting ink usage depending on the job - color jobs are much more impacted than BW ones.
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