Makeready Time

[larrysison]

Hi,

We would like to know how much makeready time (until 1st OK Sheet) will it roughly take for a Heidelberg 102 perfecting (8c) and also for a Roland 700 (4c + 1). Both machines don't have auto ink preset functions. Color bars measured with manually with handheld densitometers.

Thanks.

Larry
KSA

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

In the case of a machine that has no ink pre-sets or closed loop colour controls it's all down to the experience of the operators and overall equipment condition (i'm not saying CIP3 people dont have to be experienced). Experienced Ops can stage plates and preset the ink fountains pretty good based on knowledge of the machine's characteristics. After that its down to the condition of the inking and dampening system. As long as you keep the same operators on the same presses they can really hone in colour quite well. There is a difference between getting an ok sheet and having 'stable' colour however.
Measuring 8 colours using a hand held densitometer has to take forever and I guess the time it takes depends on your particular quality requirements.(perfect colour vs saleable colour) Sorry I cant give you a hard and fast time as it all depends on many different variables.
These presses seem perfect candidates for an aftermarket CIP3 preset and scanning densitometer system.
good luck

 

[BeauchampT]

Investing in at least a scanning densitometer is a great start. The cost will pay itself back quite quickly in shorter makereadies with alot less waste. As far as the ink presets go, if you are unable to invest in an alot CIP3 system, there are some other 'cheap' alternatives that allow you to do rough estimates of presets based on image area that can help on press. Using that sort of system might at least allow you to get away from the only one operator can run the press approach.

 

[saso777]

Very hard to answer ,depends mostly on the machinist and his experience, for 4 color machine (we have Roland without CIP3) it usually takes about 2-3 hours from beginning (putting plates and inks on the machine) till first OK sheet.Again also depends on the job.

 

[Lukew]

Very hard to answer ,depends mostly on the machinist and his experience, for 4 color machine (we have Roland without CIP3) it usually takes about 2-3 hours from beginning (putting plates and inks on the machine) till first OK sheet.Again also depends on the job.

I can't understand how you can stay competitive in todays market with that sort of makeready times. I personally feel that for any company to be at lest keeping up with the times, cip3 or some sort of auto ink key data should be used.

 

[Copper]

2-3 hr's seems really high. We have a 12 and 10 unit perfecting 102 and are in the 45min range. Longer if chasing marking on the jackets but no where near 2-3 hr's

 

[gordo]

2-3 hr's seems really high. We have a 12 and 10 unit perfecting 102 and are in the 45min range. Longer if chasing marking on the jackets but no where near 2-3 hr's

Just an interesting sidebar. I once visited a shop in Wisconsin where the make readies were about 3 - 4 hrs long. The press was a Planeta with manual ink keys. They printed cereal boxes and once set up the press would print continuously for five days. So, although the make ready time would have been easily cut in half, given the run length, there was simply no rush to do so.

best, gordo

 

[Copper]

Just an interesting sidebar. I once visited a shop in Wisconsin where the make readies were about 3 - 4 hrs long. The press was a Planeta with manual ink keys. They printed cereal boxes and once set up the press would print continuously for five days. So, although the make ready time would have been easily cut in half, given the run length, there was simply no rush to do so.

best, gordo

Manual you mean key set? I can see that amount of time. I worked briefly on a Planeta and it was no fun..haha. KBA has come along way since their Planeta roots.

 

[larrysison]

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Ultimate]

You can use a software like InkReady to generate a complete ink key setting report (printed report) or a CIP3 PPF file for a PDF, PS or TIFF file. With this information on on, you can surely reduce makeready time and reduce the associated traditional wastes. You can get a free demo by sending your details by email.

Ray Duval
Ultimate Tech.
raymond @ imposition .com

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Weighty!

Weighty!

Hello "Copper"

3hrs -- 4hrs - and that's on a good day - Damn heavy these "Stones"


Regards,

Alois

 

[Bill Rothwell]

Our company allows the operator 20 minutes per unit make ready time. If it's a 4/c=80 minutes. 6/c with coater=120 minutes. Like everyone said in this thread, it really depends on the job, quality and if you run into any troubles along the way in your make ready.
Hope this helps give you a guide line.
Bill

 

[duct maestro]

Wow! Loving the sound of a 3 hour make ready. I could go home in that time have a sleep and still be quicker. Ha. Get the proper kit and it's a 6 minute make ready between sections between jobs longer if changing coating blankets so probably 15 mins.

 

[OkiTech]

There was a software offered to calculate ink-key settings by Mr. Ultimate but if it is old Planeta press don't you think the ink keys are turn type? I mean if keys are laser cut a person can use the numbers on the scale next to each key but if it is solid blade with screw type keys how is that software could be useful?

 

[jms]

wow id like to have 2 to 3 hours to make ready time! I make ready on a 4 color job in 30 mins thats from bending the plates to having my first sheet singed to start running if its a 6 color job its about 45 mins.
my press doese not have any fancy extras, i have a consol and i hang plates manualy. i can hang 4 plates in 6 minutes and the rest is registration and color.

 

[PrintingFools]

Here is a financial way to look at it. Your employee cost to produce a job should not be more that 20% of the profit. This will be an average as some jobs may take 10% while another takes 30%. But working from 20% will be best. After you deduct the time to pay you or your sales person to sell the job, then the prepress and plate making employees...once it gets to your pressman how much is left. If there is only lets say $25 left to spend , then he/she needs to make ready and run that job in an hour...if they are making $25 an hour. If they cant do it and it is costing you to much money, then look at the details.

(1) Was the job under priced
(2) is the pressman unskilled
(3) is the pressman goofing off or slow
(4) does the machine have problems
(5) what tools can you provide your team to make things faster

Very important - Provide make ready times for each job to your pressman based on the above calculation. Ask them to give feedback and advice on how you can help them meet those goals.

Hope this feedback helps..feel free shoot is an email if you have any questions.
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