Matching the Proof

[gordo]

 

[Possumgal]

People still don't get the fact that different types of inks or printing produce different results. And let's not even get into different types of substrates. I had a heck of a time with a customer who left us because our new envelope printer used toner and it didn't look just like the same product off the press. Of course, he didn't want to pay the higher price for the offset product.

 

[kslight]

Do customers even look at what they send us or proofs anymore? So many big clients dump files with ugly low res logos and images, if they send us native files 8/10 times it’s missing the image links or the links have been renamed for some reason. Jobs will survive a week of proofs and then when it’s time to print they’ll be changing minute details on the piece… About a month ago had an old customer request business cards after receiving “bad color photos” from vista print (who would have guessed) …so we mailed them a hard copy…off the same printer / paper as the live job…they approved it, I kept a sample (I suspected the problem was their over touched up photo..) and matched that exactly for the job. And then when they got the job they’re like…”we know we approved the proof but…”

 

[warlegs]

People still don't get the fact that different types of inks or printing produce different results. And let's not even get into different types of substrates. I had a heck of a time with a customer who left us because our new envelope printer used toner and it didn't look just like the same product off the press. Of course, he didn't want to pay the higher price for the offset product.

lol Classic!

 

[warlegs]

Do customers even look at what they send us or proofs anymore? So many big clients dump files with ugly low res logos and images, if they send us native files 8/10 times it’s missing the image links or the links have been renamed for some reason. Jobs will survive a week of proofs and then when it’s time to print they’ll be changing minute details on the piece… About a month ago had an old customer request business cards after receiving “bad color photos” from vista print (who would have guessed) …so we mailed them a hard copy…off the same printer / paper as the live job…they approved it, I kept a sample (I suspected the problem was their over touched up photo..) and matched that exactly for the job. And then when they got the job they’re like…”we know we approved the proof but…”

Quote; Can you deliver this job by Friday if we give you the files today (Monday)? Absolutely... Wednesday afternoon at 3:30 get files. Proof Thursday morning. 4:00 Thurs. afternoon, a whole list of AA's.... Like, really?

 

[tngcas]

My favorite is: This file doesn't look the same as the one we printed 5 months ago. When I compare the two files they made over 40 changes to the artwork including changing the main graphics...

 

[Possumgal]

Then there was the customer who wanted a full-color business card they previously had printed in four-color process. We were only set up to do two-color, but they wanted the same results using spot colors and didn't want to go back to their old printer. We did our best but... Turns out their previous printer had used a spot along with the process color.

 

[claude72]

And designers making their RVB to CMYK conversions with Photoshop's default profile, most of the time because they don't know what is a color profile and what it does.
And printers asking for CMYK pictures without letting know which color profile has to be used.
And, worst, printers who say that color profiles are useless, that they don't use them, and telling the designers to not use color profiles.

Many color problems could be avoid, or at least lessened, simply by learning a little bit how color management and profiles work and then by using a RVB workflow...

 

[Joe]

And designers making their RVB to CMYK conversions with Photoshop's default profile, most of the time because they don't know what is a color profile and what it does.
And printers asking for CMYK pictures without letting know which color profile has to be used.
And, worst, printers who say that color profiles are useless, that they don't use them, and telling the designers to not use color profiles.

Many color problems could be avoid, or at least lessened, simply by learning a little bit how color management and profiles work and then by using a RVB workflow...

Customers that learn a "little bit how color management and profiles work" is a dangerous thing. And when customers do a conversion to CMYK unless they are blind they can see if it changes it from a good looking photo to one that looks like crap. They have responsibilities too. We finally gave up telling customers to convert to CMYK and just let our workflow color management convert to CMYK. Solved a lot of problems.

 

[claude72]

Printers don't solve problems by letting/asking people and designers do a job that they don't know how to do, mostly using a color profile not adapted to the printing ! on the contrary they create much more problems, because the printers are the only guys who knows which kind of press they use and on which kind of paper they print, so they are the only able to choose the correct profile matching their press and their paper... but instead they let the customer make a crappy conversion job without knowing which profile to use.

Customers that learn a "little bit how color management and profiles work" is a dangerous thing.

I was not talking about customers, I was talking about printers ! the RGB workflow exists since more than 30 years and it is the only solution to have the printing match the proof.
If the printer let the customers butcher their pictures in CMYK with whatever profile is by default in his Photoshop (or if the printer do the same mistake), the proof will be bullshit in most of the cases. It is a problem known since the offset printing exists, everybody, every customers, every printers in every country always complains that the printing doesn't match the proof, and instead of using the solution that will fix this problem everybody goes on over and over with old habits and old methods that have already proved since years that they are crap and they don't work.
You know the definition of insanity ? according to Albert Einstein, insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over and expecting different results.

On the contrary, if the printer asks for RGB pictures, makes the proof from the RGB pictures and then does the conversion to CMYK in a controlled way, with the correct profile (correct printing process + correct paper) and with calibrated screens the printing result will be much more predictable.

That being said, the first step of learning a little bit about color management and profiles is simply giving to your customer the correct profile he has to use for the job he wants you to print.
(And if he doesn't use the profile you tell him to use, then you have a good excuse when the printing doesn't match the proof !)

 

[Possumgal]

Unless you really know your customer, it's much easier and less time-consuming to just do whatever conversions yourself. Many customers seem to think that they know more than they do. Or worse, they think they know better than the printer.