Mitsubishi or Komori or Hidelberg

[Srinath]

Hi,
I am looking to buy a used 19" x 26" (min) 4 colour offset machine preferablly full CPC. My prints or short < 5K impressions. Can you please adivse me on which machine to buy. Also where can I find details about the used machines as hot to find the age of the machine, the number of runs it has already done etc.
Thanks.
Srinath

 

[dabob]

Personally I would go with a Speedmaster 72, the prices today are great you can probably grab an older 5 color with coater for a very good price - and Heidelbergs run for decades if properly maintained - our two primary presses are both late 70's machines and print good enough to win some international awards . ..

my 2 cents

 

[Bloodsaler]

Personally I would go with a Speedmaster 72, the prices today are great you can probably grab an older 5 color with coater for a very good price - and Heidelbergs run for decades if properly maintained - our two primary presses are both late 70's machines and print good enough to win some international awards . ..

my 2 cents

I`m wondering to know how can 70`s machines make this?
Our 7 years mitsubishi already in unconsistency condition~Can`t print high quality samples~

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

I suspect you can get good results from well maintained 70's vintage with new rubber and CTP plates, maybe even make money if you have the right mix of work and it is paid off, however, if you are like most of us you need auto plate changers, presets, ink value setting, and scanning density to be competitive these days. Try doing 20 M/R and 80 plates in a shift on a 70's press, which we do virtually every day, it would be impossible without automation...

 

[dabob]

I suspect you can get good results from well maintained 70's vintage with new rubber and CTP plates, maybe even make money if you have the right mix of work and it is paid off, however, if you are like most of us you need auto plate changers, presets, ink value setting, and scanning density to be competitive these days. Try doing 20 M/R and 80 plates in a shift on a 70's press, which we do virtually every day, it would be impossible without automation...

You pretty much hit the nail on the head . . . maintenance, CTP, right mix of work, and a paid off press make the profit picture work for us . .. but the most important thing is the people . . . our crew takes on seemingly impossible jobs and turns them into pieces that our customers are proud of and are willing to pay for . . . . some days we get 8-10 jobs off and without automation thats not too bad. But frequently we only have to do one or two M/R due to the run lengths . . . its worked for us since 77

 

[Bloodsaler]

Sorry,Can someone explain what the M/R mean?

 

[Kostagh]

I'd presume that M/R means Machine Runs (works). Our distinguished colleagues presumably refer to the number of printing works they are producing within a normal day on their machines. English not being my native tongue, allow me to appologize for the eventual mistakes.
On the other hand, I can testify that one can still get excellent production out of old machines. We are a mainly web offset printer (books and newspapers) and our mainstay in the sheetfed dept. is a 5 colour Heidelberg SM 72 production year 1989. Rehauled in 2004 (new gears, new grippers, overall electrical equipment rehauling). It runs great and without any issues using digital plates. We have as many as 30 plate changes in 16 hours (2 x 8 hours shifts). It's in top notch condition and we don't intent to let go of it any time soon.

 

[turbotom1052]

mr is make ready. modern presses are capable of much hiigher running speeds than a sheetfed press from the 70s but considering the shrinking long run market for commercial sheetfed printing (especially on a half sized format) the features of modern presses that have more of an impact than run speed is a presses ability to make ready quickly. Modern sheetfed technology has the new presses in a half sized format capapble of making ready in well under a half hour for 5 or 6 colors. Of course to be able to do this you need to have your prepress dept state of the art with an at least a competent press operator. I could see an older, 70s model press (in good condition of course) making you money if you were able to keep it running with the right kind of work. You would need a pretty skilled craftsperson to do this and of course little to no payment on the press.

 

[Srinath]

Thanks for your reply. Looks like a Hidelberg SM of age 1990+ should do the job right now and can later upgrade to latest machine

 

[Bloodsaler]

I know a company in our country,using 90`s mitsubishi does the 10um works,and do it well~
We use the 2 years KBA rapid105,and can`t print a satisfied 20um production~

 

[inkinveins]

If short runs and amount of m/r's is what you are looking for, I believe Komori is the route you should go, They were the pioneer in AMR ( automatic make ready ). Since the market started to make a turn into shorter runs and quicker turnaround times, Komori focused on integrating this into their press manufacturing, as far as workflow goes. IMHO, This is the direction most printers will need to head in, getting the job on and off the press in the most efficient manner possible with the highest quality. Printing has become a manufacturing process, and I think Komori realized that long before anyone else.