New Machine and New Fiery. Now default paper weight stops job

[Toddwick]

We recently upgraded to Ikon's CPP 550 and also received a new Fiery called the "Fiery X3eTY2 65_55C-KM". I am hating the fact that whenever someone prints they now have to choose the paper weight, otherwise the machine will error out. This never used to be an issue with our old fiery, and has resulted in someone calling me with questions daily. And a huge measurable lack in production.

Is there anyway to turn this feature off? I assumed it was called "Fiery doesn't care what paper weight is (on user computer) as long as it prints what it sees the copier has it set to". But that option wasn't available.

Todd

 

[PineyBob]

Not for sure on the IKON 550 but on "many" of the digital units you have "paper catalogs" that define paper weight, white point and a host of other parameters.

Often the reason for this is that the newer machines adjust the speed to accommodate heavier papers. Depending on the specific model it will also change the calibration set based on the paper selected. This is all done to achieve maximum quality and productivity.

BTW doesn't EFI give you the option of creating virtual printers and/or hot folders that would allow you to set up common job parameters such as type of stock?

IMO Turning this feature off would result in a variety of issues none of which are good for the device or your business

 

[sweatyclimber]

thats the office fiery for the c6500/5500. As long as your printing to plain, you can set "use machine settings" as the default. As Bob said, when your printing to other papers, you'll want to select the media type to get good results. Also as he said you can buy the hot folders option (its not standard on the small fiery) and have them drag and drop jobs into it for their paper w/o opening the document.

 

[Toddwick]

Thanks for replying. There is indeed an option called "Printers Default" but that default is 75-80gm/2. Selecting Printer's default won't work because the fiery will compare what size the printer has the tray selected as, and then compare the paper weight associated with the print job. (Printer's Default works fine with tray 1, because tray 1 is set to 75-80 on the printer).

I was hoping for a solution, as most of our users just want to print without really determining what the paper weight's tray is set to. Since we are a church, a good majority of our users have no idea what paper weight is and don't need to as they never change media with different weight types.

Our old Fiery didn't have these issues, so I thought we just had a new unit that had settings that needed to be changed. But if it's built-in, grrrrrr. Seriously, every time someone prints using tray 2 (Card stock). I have to cancel the job and resend using the correct paper weight.

 

[UberTech]

Actually this is not the new Fiery at fault rather the new software on the new Fiery you have. After version 1.0 Fiery made the software more picky about paper types/weights.

Your best option is to login into the machine via command workstation, run setup and untick 'allow mismatch' this will allow the user to select a tray at the machine rather than going back and sending the job again.

For example - wrong paper sent, touch detail on the screen, chose a tray and press start, easy.

 

[PineyBob]

Why would you do that and totally defeat the color management tools that you pay for with Fiery? Why turn a Porsche into a Kia?

 

[UberTech]

If the colour matching in your church is that critical then your only option really is to store your paper types in the catalogue and then get the users to chose the paper types from the driver’s paper catalogue. Then go to the machine and get them to recall the required paper type.

Keep in mind when you calibrate you will have to calibrate for each media type for this to make any difference.

If you calibrate and select 'apply to all' then the first solution is adequate.

 

[PineyBob]

The newer Fiery solutions use 28lb Hammermill Color laser Paper as their default.

Used properly with the paper catalog one need only calibrate to the default and the parameters of the stock selected are applied when selected. At least on the Canon 7000VP that's the way it works.

Each paper loaded in the catalog has something like 22 diferent parameters defined. So with the Fiery Calibrated to the default paper when one selects #80 SAPPI C2/S it then applies those parameters much like selecting the SWOP target in Colorwise.

 

[UberTech]

Konica Fierys are also based on Hammermill but it sounds like the workflow is slightly different as the calibration sets are applied to the output profile.

When you select the different media types Gloss offset/Gloss laser/Matt offset/Matt laser the output profile is changed to suite, although these are just place markers. Sounds like this 7000vp machine is a pretty switched on cookie if it is consistent on all stocks from one calibration.

 

[PineyBob]

let's put it like this UberTech,

When I had weeks to play with it, we had this HUGE internal debate over this very issue. Even EFI gave conflicting information at the beginning and frankly all of us who have worked with Fiery and color for years were very skeptical.

That said it did seem to work with one calibration. Now at age 54 I'm not going to say that my eyes are "Color Certified" LOL. At that time there were just south of 2000 paper definitions loaded with more on the way.

I have a friend at K-M who is a production specialist, I could reach out to him and see for sure how the K-M is supposed to work?

 

[UberTech]

Thats great news and happy birthday. I think this guy just wants to know how to get the paper out of his machine. If Colour is a problem I am sure he will tell us.

 

[Bretman]

Toddwick,
Buddy I hate to tell you but your people may simply have to learn to use these paper weights. If you do not use the appropriate paper weight you can have much headaches. Such as... too light a weight for a cover stock and 50 sheets into it the toner quits sticking properly. Believe me, I KNOW. been there. Too light a paper weight and you can get double sheets, ie. JAMS. Its really not that hard. If you use common papers quite frequently reset the default machine settings to your paper and keep that paper loaded in a common tray, then let everyone know.

Hope this helps.

Bret

 

[Toddwick]

Thanks for all your respones. To narrow down what I was looking for: With our Ikon Konica 550, all the trays have set sizes and paper weights that never change. (Tray2 Cardstock), (Tray3 11X17), (Tray 4 Legal). And tray 1 is the standard (8.5x11 machine's default). The trays never change in size or paper weight. We use the stack bypass if we want to change up media.

I was looking for a way that a user could select to print to tray 4 and not have to run to the machine and see what the paper weight is set to or in most cases, they have to try and find that sticky that had the paper weights on it. I was hoping the fiery could see the setting on the machine and run accordingly. From reading your responses, this is not possible.

Thanks for your help. I do understand that we don't want a machine running too fast with heavier paper weights. But if the Fiery could just run the machine at what the paper weights are already set to(on the machine side), it just seems that it should simply do that.

Does anyone know if all the new copiers are doing this? Or is this just a Fiery issue, or Konica issue?

Thanks,

Todd

 

[PineyBob]

I think it's feature of the Fiery System 8 software. I know the Canon C-1, 6000 and 7000VP all have the capability

 

[Bretman]

Hey Toddwick,
I can't help you with other machines, we only run the 6500 for a digital press. We have the designers / typesetters print to a hold que and then I usually set up the jobs, line em up and send them to print.

Good luck,

Bret

 

[UberTech]

Is there a solution to this problem? Yes! Is it easy to implement? No!

This method will assume you will use the same calibration for each stock. Judging by the stocks you have listed and your a church this won't phase you.

Deep breath....

You will have to go into the command workstation to do this.

One of the menu options is Media catalogue or paper catalogue haven't got a machine in front of me so can't tell you exactly.

This will allow you to add paper types so add the settings you have on the machine and then associate it to the corresponding paper tray.

After you do this the paper catalogue will come to life in your printer driver. Your users can then select the paper type and it will feed from that tray. Don’t set size, weight or type as this has been linked in your paper catalogue.

So yes, quite complicated to implement but it will resolve your problem.