PDF for Printer

[roclimb]

Hi, Im new to self publishing and have a question. My printer wants me to send either a PDF or InDesign packet of files for a book i'm having done on an offset printer. They prefer PDF. Will I get the same quality if I have them run the PDF or should I insist they use the packaged InDesign book?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Rob

 

[Al Ferrari]

Hello Bob,

I am a commercial printer of some 38+ years and an early adopter of electronic publishing applications, and I can say without reservation that you should do as your printer requests. It is almost a certainty that if you send them a packaged InDesign file, they will use it to generate a pdf and print from that. So this just boils down to what kind of pdf. Either use the "press quality" setting, or ask your printer how they want you to prepare the pdf. Don't be shy to ask for their advice. The final product depends on the cooperative efforts between you and the printer.

Al

 

[mattbeals]

You should send along a PDF with the native files. When you export the PDF use the "High Quality Print" settings or the PDF/X-1a or PDF/X-4. If they have their own instructions then follow those instructions. Generally speaking the PDF/X-4 preset is the way to go.

 

[roclimb]

Thanks so much for the reply. That makes sense. I had one other question: They want all the money up front for the printing. I thought it was standard to pay half, get a proof, then send the other half for the print job. I know other people who have had good experiences with the printer, just seems like it woudl be good to get a proof first.

 

[rich apollo]

They're getting money up front because you're an unknown credit risk. Once they've produced the job, the printer is out the paper, ink, press time, prepress time, plates, chemistry, press chemistry, proofing materials, and labor. They're just limiting their financial exposure.

After you've demonstrated that you pay your bills, I'm sure you can negotiate better terms.

 

[stevehall52]

You should send along a PDF with the native files. When you export the PDF use the "High Quality Print" settings or the PDF/X-1a or PDF/X-4. If they have their own instructions then follow those instructions. Generally speaking the PDF/X-4 preset is the way to go.

I've been using PDFx 2001 for years and it's worked fine. What does the PDFx 4 offer that improves on the 2001 driver?

 

[mattbeals]

PDF/X-1a:2001/2003 requires that transparency be flattened, no ICC profiles except the output intent and no optional content groups (layers). PDF/X-4 lets you have live transparency, ICC profiles and the output intent and optional content groups (layers).

 

[CathieH]

And don't forget to add crop marks, and if you've got any bleeds make them at least 1/8" (but 1/4" is always nice), and if they're running digital, allow about 1/16" bounce.

 

[Shawn]

I've been using PDFx 2001 for years and it's worked fine. What does the PDFx 4 offer that improves on the 2001 driver?

As Matt mentioned, transparency. Flattened transparency can limit your editing options severely, so if your RIP supports it X4 is the way to go.

Our official specs are to use PDF X4. We just had a job sent by the client as PDF X1a with lots of complex transparency effects. They had defined one of the colors as a spot but in this case the job was printing as process. When the spot color was converted to process the transparency flattening in the X1a made several elements disappear where spot color blends went over 4c photos.

The same effects in an X4 file converts properly. The client probably could also have converted the spots to process in InDesign first then created the X1a.

Shawn

 

[Jackie]

Rob, from prepress operators everywhere, thank you for asking!

So many new designers completely ignore printer requirements and then wonder why the print job doesn't come out they way they thought it would. Keep asking questions and your print suppliers will come to love working with you.

 

[pdan]

@ CathieH

Actually, it is becoming common the crops not be included. The bleed and trim defined in a proper pdf structure suffice.

 

[DCurry]

I prefer crop marks, as long as they are not showing up in the bleed area (InDesign's default marks offset is too small).

The reason is because I often run loose page proofs (as opposed to imposed proofs), which are processed by the RIP but not put into an imposition yet. Leaving the crops on lets them show up on the loose page proofs, and if they are offset so they don't appear in the bleed area, then they don't interfere with the impositions.

It also shows me that the designer has some understanding of trim size and bleed. An uneducated designer might think they need to build their files .25" bigger to allow for bleed, rather than building to trim size and extending bleed past that. Crop marks on the PDF help to see that stuff at a glance.

 

[rich apollo]

Would much prefer the crop marks be left off. Same for bullets, colorbars, et cetera. All of that has to be done away with in some fashion.

 

[DCurry]

Would much prefer the crop marks be left off. Same for bullets, colorbars, et cetera. All of that has to be done away with in some fashion.

Just curious as to why? Assuming it is all out of the bleed area, doesn't it just get hidden by your impo software? I use Preps and anything outside of the bleed doesn't show up. Best of both worlds.

 

[John Clifford]

As Matt mentioned, transparency. Flattened transparency can limit your editing options severely, so if your RIP supports it X4 is the way to go.

Our official specs are to use PDF X4. We just had a job sent by the client as PDF X1a with lots of complex transparency effects. They had defined one of the colors as a spot but in this case the job was printing as process. When the spot color was converted to process the transparency flattening in the X1a made several elements disappear where spot color blends went over 4c photos.

The same effects in an X4 file converts properly. The client probably could also have converted the spots to process in InDesign first then created the X1a.

Shawn

But remember that the printer must have an Adobe PDF Print Engine RIP (APPE) for PDF/X-4 to work. If they have an older RIP then you need to preflatten transparency. Remember, Postscript doesn't understand transparency and older RIPs use Postscript as the format from which they RIP. APPE uses native PDF which DOES understand transparency.

Just a word of warning. I tell my students, when in doubt, use PDF/X-1a

 

[mattbeals]

John, the recipient does NOT need to have the APPE. It helps, but isn't required. You are right though that when in doubt use PDF/X-1a:2003.

 

[MacTwidget]

But remember that the printer must have an Adobe PDF Print Engine RIP (APPE) for PDF/X-4 to work. If they have an older RIP then you need to preflatten transparency. Remember, Postscript doesn't understand transparency and older RIPs use Postscript as the format from which they RIP. APPE uses native PDF which DOES understand transparency.

Just a word of warning. I tell my students, when in doubt, use PDF/X-1a

I would still recommend sending PDF/X-4. Any decent prepress operator will appreciate it even if they don't have APPE workflow. A good operator can control more about how the transparency gets flattened through Acrobat and PitStop. Most non-APPE RIPs will flatten transparency better than a PDF/X-1a will.

 

[Shawn]

But remember that the printer must have an Adobe PDF Print Engine RIP (APPE) for PDF/X-4 to work. If they have an older RIP then you need to preflatten transparency. Remember, Postscript doesn't understand transparency and older RIPs use Postscript as the format from which they RIP. APPE uses native PDF which DOES understand transparency.

Just a word of warning. I tell my students, when in doubt, use PDF/X-1a

Hi John,

That’s why I put the big qualifier about the RIP needing to understand transparency.

However, I'd still rather have an X4 than an X1a. X4 saves more information in the file than X1a and it's easy enough to convert back to X1a if needed. You can even automate the process with a droplet using nothing more than Acrobat. But once that transparency is flattened, information is gone. If you need that information for something then you're out of luck. In the example I used, simply converting a spot color to process was impossible because of the transparency flattening.

So I guess what this thread really highlights is that you should set your job up correctly, AND check with your printer to see how they want the PDF saved.

 

[mattbeals]

Anyone with a relatively modern Harlequin RIP should be able to handle a PDF/X-4. If not, then anyone with Acrobat Pro or InDesign should be able to flatten the document. PDF/X-4 just gives content creators and recipients so many different options that it really is for all practical purposes the most flexible solution.

 

[giant1958]

Rob, from prepress operators everywhere, thank you for asking!

So many new designers completely ignore printer requirements and then wonder why the print job doesn't come out they way they thought it would. Keep asking questions and your print suppliers will come to love working with you.

TOTALLY AGREE...from one prepress person to another!!!