Proofing a metallic trap...

eran

Well-known member
This is has been a little annoyance for me for the longest time and It seems about time that I can accurately proof my 4 color + metallic jobs. My problem is usually metallic text on a process background. The preferred trap is of course to choke the text as the metallic will go on last but my proofs always place the metallic underneath the process inks making the text appear choked out. As far as I can tell, the matter could be easily solved by proofing the actual ink sequencing used on press rather than what seems to be the default (CMYK on top of all additional colors) Our workflow primarily consists of PDF files which go into Trueflow 5 SE and out of GMG Colorproof 4.5. It appears as if Colorproof should be able to change the sequence in the "Channels" tab but the buttons do not affect change in the order.

Any ideas?
Thanks Everyone!
 
If your proofing system essentially assumes that inks are completely transparent, there may be no easy way to do it. I use a different system than you (Agfa Printdrive), and this is the only way it works. I'm assuming yours is the same way, but hopefully someone who's familiar with it will reply.

If the inks are assumed to be completely transparent (as process inks nearly are), then any assumed ink sequence would make no difference to the color calculation, and it would only appear as though the metallic ink is underneath the others because you naturally expect it to hide them. If you can make a proof as you wish, then you should also be able to have an opaque white ink that would completely erase what's underneath it on the proof (not that there's any reason to do that - just saying that if you could do one you could do the other).

If your system is limited to transparent ink calculations, you could cheat by creating a fake proof (probably not a good idea), or maybe just output a sheet from a proofer (not necessarily a color proofer) that has only the metallic ink on it and use it as an overlay of the color proof. Then you could see the metallic ink more accurately by itself, since it will just about knock out everything else. We do this with 4 color + spot jobs sometimes so a customer can see if something that should be in the spot ink is process color.

If I had a job like this in our Printdrive (it stores 1 bit TIFF's from the RIP and makes the proofs and plates), I could copy the metallic image four times and reassign the copies to act as masks of each of the process inks. This would hide the trapping under the metallic ink on the proofs without having to RIP the job twice. I would then disable the masking images when plating. Maybe you could apply the same concept to your situtation.

If anyone is familiar with Colorproof, please join in. I don't want to finish off the thread with my half-ignorant response.
 
It appears as if Colorproof should be able to change the sequence in the "Channels" tab but the buttons do not affect change in the order.

The buttons in the Channels tab indeed do not alter the sequence. Not sure what their function is or if they are enabled with other features, but not for contone. I can't imagine it would make a difference anyway, since with an inkjet proof, spots are simulations and use the same inks as process, and everything is jettted on in one pass of the head.

That said, you might try adjusting the spot color opacity. in your Editor, click off the "multiply channels" than output some tests with diffrent opacity. I can't say that I've ever had a problem that you're describing, but maybe this will help...or not. ;)
 
Hrm. Thanks for the good responses.
By editor, are you referring to the GMG Spot Color Editor?
 
Hrm. Thanks for the good responses.
By editor, are you referring to the GMG Spot Color Editor?

Yes, Spot Color Editor. Sorry. Again, not sure it will fix your issue (hard time envisioning it actually), but it might.
 
I'll see if I can't prepare a visual aid... I've not had a chance to play with the proofer RIP but i've been thinking about it- Ripserver and trueflow both provide TIFFs to ColorProof... would that be why modifying the ink sequence is essentially out of the question in the "Channels" tab?

Alright...
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Unfortunately Photoshop didn't simulate the overprint upon rasterization but the overall result is still prominent in the "TM". I have to say that I'm kind of bummed that the Ink Manager tool in Acrobat doesn't seem to do anything.
 

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I'll see if I can't prepare a visual aid... I've not had a chance to play with the proofer RIP but i've been thinking about it- Ripserver and trueflow both provide TIFFs to ColorProof... would that be why modifying the ink sequence is essentially out of the question in the "Channels" tab?

Can't say for certain. I don't remember ever having the ability to change sequence, but not sure that would help you anyway.

What size is that "TM"? I'm not discerning a process build around this at all from the preview here. Are you referring to a paper simulation by chance?
 
Uh-Oh... We may have a misunderstanding here or I might just be confused. It sounds like we may be looking at different aspects of this...

I'm was playing with the Ink Manager available from the Output Preview window, although that doesn't even commit any changes that are saved with the document.

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Above is a different piece, but is the exact size of the one before (just before import & trap). The TM is 6pt.
 

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I don't think there's anything you could do to the PDF that would in any way indicate an ink laydown sequence, short of embedding private application data designed for a specific application to interpret. In a PDF, only the objects are stacked in a meaningful order - the colorants are not. Even if an object is split up into stacked overprinting separations, the order shouldn't make any difference. The only case I know of (pre-RIP) where an ink sequence exists and affects the appearance is in the Photoshop channels palette with spot channels that have solidity set above 0%. In this case, the order only affects the appearance on-screen in Photoshop, and the ink on top in the palette is actually considered to be on the bottom when it comes to calculating the color.
 
We can alter the lay down sequence here on our Kodak Approvals and that's how we proof the metallics. I think that it's not something to do with the transparency of inks, but more to the lack of transparency of the metallic inks (they are more opaque than the cmyk inks). The trap should be an overprint but due to the opacity of the metallics, it doesn't "look" right on the proof.

Can you just not trap the file for proofing purposes? Let it go out one to one?
 
eran,
In TrueFlow you can specify whether an ink is transparent, invisible (like a varnish), or opaque. You also can, in all the front ends I've run, specify a visual density for an ink. For some reason vendors always define metallics as having a low density. Make sure the metallic is specified as being either opaque, or more dense than the other inks (by a bunch). Then your trapper will spread everything to the metallic.

Also, you are correct, the metallic MUST go down last. This will typically mean that the pressmen will have to wash up and move the CMYK inks toward the front of the press. They'll cry about it. Tell 'em to shut up and do it!

If you run the metallic ink last down you won't have to play any of the games with splitting traps.

Also, in TrueFlow you can set up permanent trapping preferences for an ink. So, for instance, if you're always running the same metallic (ie PMS 877) you can specify that everything spreads to that ink.
 
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lynnz

lynnz

Eran,
Do you have the option to change the trapping settings in your workflow? (For example usually lw to ct, ct to lw, color based, ct based) Usually changing from the default to color based or ct based solves the issue.
Normally our rule is metallic prints first - we are a folding carton company.
Don't know if this is useful, but good luck

lynn
 
Success!

Success!

Wow. Thanks for all the response, Everyone!

I had a moment to play this morning. From what I can tell, the separation order out of Trueflow has no effect other than the order plates are imaged. The big fix to this problem was in fact the ink opacity settings applied by Colorproof. I made a test spot color with opacity set to 100%. Problem solved. Now the problem will be tweaking other spot colors as needed. Luckily I rarely have this problem on jobs other than those from this client and coincidentally it's almost always 877. So 90% of occurrences are fixed as of now.

Thanks Guys!
 

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