Quark runaround text fattening issue - help!

[splenguin]

Geniuses-

Does anyone have problems with Quark "fattening" copy that is adjacent to an image or drop shadow? We've had this issue for quite some time - we'll have copy set next to an object with a runaround, and when we export a PDF for Prinergy, the copy will appear bolder than copy in the same paragraph that isn't adjacent to that particular object.

I've attached a PDF that shows two instances of this problem from the same document, as evidenced in Acrobat and VPS - the top example is caused by a simple oversized text character with a drop shadow, the second by a normal image. At the bottom you can see that I've confirmed the text is actually bolder - the same character of the same font size is 0.316mm in the problem area, and 0.296mm in a different place in the same paragraph. We've tried different versions of Quark, adjusting transparency flattening settings, and even outputting postscript files instead of PDFs, all to no avail.

The only workaround we've found is to remove the runaround from the offending object, than manually change the shape of the affected text box to achieve the same text flow.

Any assistance will be rewarded generously with kind thoughts.
Thanks in advance, Joe in MPLS

 

[WharfRat]

Have you tried setting the transparency flattener
to the resolution of the platesetter?

MSD

 

[james.bredenhof]

Hi, Joe,

What you have is a classic problem with flattened transparency. The problem is that some of the text is real text (i.e. the RiP can use font hinting to determine which pixels to turn on at various resolutions), and some of the text has been outlined by the flattener (i.e. is now just a vector object.)
You can see this effect if you build a file in Illustrator where you have normal text, then duplicate it and outline it. You'll see the same sort of thing.

You could try changing the stacking order of objects in Quark so the text is above the drop shadow/etc. transparent effects.
You could also use Quark 8.1 (which has native transparency support), and feed the resulting file through Prinergy with "Preserve transparency" on Refine, and output with Adobe PDF Print Engine (APPE). The result should now be perfect!

James

 

[claude72]

You can also try to put the picture and the text on 2 different layers: picture on a back layer, and text on a front layer.

 

[splenguin]

Thanks all for your responses. In a hurry, I neglected to mention that the problem shows up prior to rip, so what we've got is more of a Quark problem than a rip problem. We're aware of the layering "solutions" - I was hoping there might be a PDF setting, though it seems that upgrading to 8.1 might be the way to go [thanks James for that bit of info]. Due to the multiple types of offending objects in this particular document, we turned off the runarounds and changed the shape of the text boxes themselves. Having to do this type of manual fixing just to compensate for crappy coding is tremendously frustrating. As such, I hereby propose we change the name of this part of the forum to WE HATE QUARK BECAUSE IT RUINED OUR LIVES AND WE WISH IT WOULD FINALLY JUST GO AWAY AND ANY DESIGNERS WHO STILL USE IT SHOULD BE SLAPPED ACROSS THE FACE WITH A WET TROUT. Too long?

Thanks again for your responses,
Joe

 

[prep]

Quark Trapping

Quark Trapping

This has been a problem since before transparency was even created. It has to do with how Quark auto traps the text. The best solution is to turn the trapping off in Quark all together. The other way is to select the text which is spreading and using the Quark Trap information window, change the trap from spread to overprint.

We have had to do this for years. Used to drive us crazy back in the film days.

At least that is what I think it is.

 

[Andy182]

I think the trap is the right answer.

I think the trap is the right answer.

The trap is it, I think anyway.

I used to get this a lot too, if you could send me the Quark sample I would like to try and see if the results differ my way.

I think the overprint is one way.

In the QuarkXpress® Preferences under trapping we set the method to (Trapping Method) knockout all, check both the Process Trapping and Ignore white. Then we set the Auto amount and Indeterminate to 0 (zero) Knockout limit to 0 (Zero) and Overprint to 95%.

Our rip will do bad things without this, and I know you said this was like this before you Rip'd. But I think Quark is doing what it is told with the layers and trapping what really doesn't matter.

Again, if you ciyld give me your sample that would be great!

Hope this is solved already!

Cheers!

Andy

 

[ghprint]

I have the same issue, I think, just posted in Harlequin Area.
For me, it only happens in Harlequin 8.1, looks fine in Harlequin 7.1.

The re-layering works, but is not a solution, 'cause the designer wants the Drop shadow over the Text.
It happens with Illustrator Files too.

 

[prepressguru]

This has been a problem since before transparency was even created. It has to do with how Quark auto traps the text. The best solution is to turn the trapping off in Quark all together. The other way is to select the text which is spreading and using the Quark Trap information window, change the trap from spread to overprint.

We have had to do this for years. Used to drive us crazy back in the film days.

At least that is what I think it is.

Trapping is only applied when you write out separated files not composite.

oq