Replaced KM C8000 with Xerox C1000 Clear Toner

[KopyBoss]

KM is not happy. We just replaced all three of our C8000's with three Xerox C1000 all with clear toner. Our volume is between 250k - 380k per machine. Before we made the
jump X installed a machine in our shop to test for 1 month cause we told them a demo in there controlled environment would not work for us we had to run it in the real world.
Only had two service calls doing the test and we ran the crap out of the machine put a little over 300k on it. Our customers loved the clear ink plus it's a up charge so we make more $. They were telling us we could run the same volume on one Igen that we were going to do on three color presses which is true, but in the long run the Igen will cost you a lot more. There have been a few printers here that made the leap to the Igen and now there doors are closed. Plus with the color press you have 5 inks and they have a slot for a 6 ink in the future and our CFO worked out a deal we are paying pretty close to the something as the C8000's that were removed.

 

[Minuteman Press]

That's awesome.. How much more time was left on your konica lease?

We do similar volumes and we are possibly moving to xerox as well but we are a little disappointed with our nuvera 157.. We are placing service calls around every 30.000 clicks. Xerox support has been great but if it continues I will ask them to take it out.

 

[msaeger]

I agree 3 machines is better than one big one.

 

[Craig]

I have to chuckle, xerox was trying to do a buy back on our 8080 lease and the cost of the 1000 clicks were 40% higher than our current charges for anything over 17". The couldn't give me a 1000 for that. We just added a KM C6000 as a back-up and love it! We will just keep like for liking the 8080 until the lease runs out, we are on our second engine so far!

 

[KopyBoss]

That's awesome.. How much more time was left on your konica lease?

We do similar volumes and we are possibly moving to xerox as well but we are a little disappointed with our nuvera 157.. We are placing service calls around every 30.000 clicks. Xerox support has been great but if it continues I will ask them to take it out.

We had about 8 months left on our leases.

That sucks we are getting well over 1M click between service on our Nuvera 288's & Nuvera 315

 

[lfelton]

Sounds interesting (as I'm going to have to buy yet another colour digital soon), however the X1000 prices must have dropped like a stone. I got quotes a little over a year ago and the X1000 worked out well over twice the capital cost of a Konica C8000 and about 1.5x the running costs, which made it a company killer product in our market (like the iGen). Also all of the customers we spoke to couldn't see the point of the clear toner. If Xerox could increase the shine so that it looks like a spot UV coating then THAT we could sell.

On image quality the 1000 was the best Xerox I've seen to date, but that only made it on a par with the C8000.

IMO the C8000's achilles heel is that it's a pig to keep consistent colour and it's not very reliable (not terrible, just not as good as the 6501, which was a real workhorse). However, when it's running right, you can't fault the image quality. The one thing that's stopping me filling the digital print room with them is that they will run all day producing good quality print then BAM a sensor goes and they continue churning out reams of crap. Even if you calibrate before each job, they have NO IDEA that anything is wrong. A good operator can catch SOME of these, but not everything. Suffice it to say that our customers love the output from the C8000, but it single handedly makes up about 50% of our Complaint/Rejects.

 

[arossetti]

If Xerox could increase the shine so that it looks like a spot UV coating then THAT we could sell.

I believe the x1000 with an EFI DFE will do a multiple pass clear. So it will add 1-2 extra layers of clear down during the run.

 

[KopyBoss]

I believe the x1000 with an EFI DFE will do a multiple pass clear. So it will add 1-2 extra layers of clear down during the run.

Yes you can do up to 7 pass on the clear.

Sounds interesting (as I'm going to have to buy yet another colour digital soon), however the X1000 prices must have dropped like a stone.

When we first got our Nuvera's X asked why we had all KM color boxes and no X boxes. We told them because there prices were almost double the KM boxes, they asked if they could re-quote when our leases were almost up and they would like us to be a all X shop. We received quotes from KM, Xerox and MGI over all MGI offered us the best deal as far as price, but we didn't like there service plan we had no problem doing the service our self, but when we asked what if a laser or board goes out of course they said that never happens. Our response was until it happens to us and we have to folk out $10k - $25 to replace, button line they couldn't give us a straight answer. We were very surprise Xerox came in very close to KM offer. The C8000 is a very good box we were lucky had a good tech, but we did have issues with color shift which you will get with all digital boxes.
Xerox just made us an offer that was to good to pass up.

 

[laertes]

I want to to replace our C8000 with a Xerox 1000 but the Price of the X ist more than double of the C8000 (around EUR 220.000,- / USD 300.000). I think this is to high for this machine. we print on this machine 100.000 SRA3 each month.

 

[cosmo]

Sounds interesting (as I'm going to have to buy yet another colour digital soon), however the X1000 prices must have dropped like a stone. I got quotes a little over a year ago and the X1000 worked out well over twice the capital cost of a Konica C8000 and about 1.5x the running costs, which made it a company killer product in our market (like the iGen). Also all of the customers we spoke to couldn't see the point of the clear toner. If Xerox could increase the shine so that it looks like a spot UV coating then THAT we could sell.

On image quality the 1000 was the best Xerox I've seen to date, but that only made it on a par with the C8000.

IMO the C8000's achilles heel is that it's a pig to keep consistent colour and it's not very reliable (not terrible, just not as good as the 6501, which was a real workhorse). However, when it's running right, you can't fault the image quality. The one thing that's stopping me filling the digital print room with them is that they will run all day producing good quality print then BAM a sensor goes and they continue churning out reams of crap. Even if you calibrate before each job, they have NO IDEA that anything is wrong. A good operator can catch SOME of these, but not everything. Suffice it to say that our customers love the output from the C8000, but it single handedly makes up about 50% of our Complaint/Rejects.

have to agree on the c8000 just randomly spitting out shit and then having to throw it in the bin, they should compensate for that.

 

[Minuteman Press]

KopyBoss, how is the Xerox 1000 holding up so far? Are service calls more or less than the Konica 8000?

 

[KopyBoss]

KopyBoss, how is the Xerox 1000 holding up so far? Are service calls more or less than the Konica 8000?

Between the three machine we have ran over 2.5M imp. and only three service calls in the last four months. When we had the KM 8000's there was a tech out here almost everyday working on one of the machines. We pretty much do all our own maintenance on the machines I thank that is making a big difference in the up time

 

[joetheprinter]

WAIT!

There's something coming from Xerox very soon. There is a teaser out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHD0OTo4srk&feature=youtu.be

Its looks like its 4 color (no clear option). Very scant information, but I'm led to believe it will be very well priced.

 

[kdw75]

I am surprised that with 100k clicks a month you can justify a C1000. We run around 130k 13x19 sheets a month and the C75 works great.

 

[KopyBoss]

I am surprised that with 100k clicks a month you can justify a C1000. We run around 130k 13x19 sheets a month and the C75 works great.

We are running over 300k clicks per machine a month. How did you come up with 100k?

 

[kdw75]

We are running over 300k clicks per machine a month. How did you come up with 100k?

My comment was referencing another posters comments.

 

[jjumboxerox]

We are running over 300k clicks per machine a month. How did you come up with 100k?

How it is Possible that all of You are Printing above 100K? What Type Of Job are been printing the most? Is the Offset Printing Costly over there?
Myself we print only 15-30 K per month

 

[arossetti]

We print about 1 million color 8.5x11" equivalents a month. I know others on here do a lot more than that. We run 2 shifts, 7 days and we are printing mostly marketing collateral, direct mail, manuals and books, etc...general commercial work. We do not specialize in anything except fast turnarounds. We have zero offset equipment and do another 2 million in black ink a month.

 

[kdw75]

We are a very small shop with only 8 employees. We have a 4-color offset press and some 1 and 2 color presses. We have found that many of our customers are going to full short run full color work with tight turn around times. This means that many of the jobs we used to run offset are going digital because of the quantities and the time it takes. We also do mailings and VD work along with booklets that come out of the Xerox finished without having to be run through our bindery.

A few years ago we were running less than 10K clicks a month digitally. This week alone I have done 70K 11x17 or larger clicks through our C75.

Keith

 

[Craig]

Again from a small duplicator offset shop that moved to all digital . We run about 300,000 color 8.5x11/ month and another 400,000 B/W and about 80,000 envelopes a month. All Digital and we are still growing at about 18 to 20%/year. Only about 15% of the work has any variable data (usually address drops on mailers).