Ricoh 72xx Color Accuracy and Consistency...

[kdw75]

After 3 years of running Ricoh 72xx machines and 5 years of running Xerox Versant machines, one of the most notable things is how they handle color. On our Versant machines, they needed to be calibrated very frequently, sometimes more than once a day. On the other hand, the Ricohs can go weeks without needing calibration.

I was wondering if anyone know why this might be.

 

[kslight]

After 3 years of running Ricoh 72xx machines and 5 years of running Xerox Versant machines, one of the most notable things is how they handle color. On our Versant machines, they needed to be calibrated very frequently, sometimes more than once a day. On the other hand, the Ricohs can go weeks without needing calibration.

I was wondering if anyone know why this might be.

When I ran Xerox, they got calibrated daily and you couldn’t trust it to be consistent even during a run. The real kicker was also variation across the sheet…even if the color was relatively consistent from sheet to sheet, one side of the sheet to the other varied hugely and there was very little you could do about it. I fought with service a lot about that.

I don’t know how the current Gen Xerox is but one real positive about modern KM / Ricoh is this is not really an issue, and when it is, you just run the extended calibration routine and it corrects itself. There is a lot that could be improved with our KM but there’s also a lot I take for granted that is so much better than the machines I had 2-15 years ago.

 

[kdw75]

Competing with each other it really surprises me that there would be much difference across brands when the technology is so mature.We found that most of our huge color variations on the Versant came down to how dirty it ran. It would always be throwing toner up onto the sensors that read the belt and adjust density. Cleaning that ever couple days took away the huge color swings, but it still didn't fix the normal variations.

 

[TJPrinter]

I had a Xerox 700 that had problems with density across the page and service did everything they could to resolve the problem. It looked like they were rebuilding the entire engine with all the boxes they had here for service. They did fix it though. It's too bad that service isn't consistent from one vendor to the next. These problems should never be okay to leave.

The color consistency has been better for me on the Vesant 280 but I do notice that it will be much better if I wait to calibrate after it's already run for a bit. My guess would be that it has something to do with the cheap drums that Xerox uses.

I'm curious about the toner on the sensors though. Did you clean these off or did service have to? If you did, how would I look for that? Thanks!

All these machines have their own unique pros and cons and the lesson learned for me would be if I had the room for two presses they would not be from the same manufacture.

 

[chriscozi]

After 3 years of running Ricoh 72xx machines and 5 years of running Xerox Versant machines, one of the most notable things is how they handle color. On our Versant machines, they needed to be calibrated very frequently, sometimes more than once a day. On the other hand, the Ricohs can go weeks without needing calibration.

I was wondering if anyone know why this might be.

Exactly the opposite here. The 92XX is horribly inconsistent color .

 

[KopyBoss]

After 3 years of running Ricoh 72xx machines and 5 years of running Xerox Versant machines, one of the most notable things is how they handle color. On our Versant machines, they needed to be calibrated very frequently, sometimes more than once a day. On the other hand, the Ricohs can go weeks without needing calibration.

I was wondering if anyone know why this might be.

We had the same issue with the ColorPress 1000i....This past year we have been running Iridesse and the colors are consistent from sheet to sheet and we run a lot of full sheet solids. We calibrate and clean our Machines every Monday morning it's a shop rule. Did the same when we had KM boxes in the shop.

 

[kdw75]

I had a Xerox 700 that had problems with density across the page and service did everything they could to resolve the problem. It looked like they were rebuilding the entire engine with all the boxes they had here for service. They did fix it though. It's too bad that service isn't consistent from one vendor to the next. These problems should never be okay to leave.

The color consistency has been better for me on the Vesant 280 but I do notice that it will be much better if I wait to calibrate after it's already run for a bit. My guess would be that it has something to do with the cheap drums that Xerox uses.

I'm curious about the toner on the sensors though. Did you clean these off or did service have to? If you did, how would I look for that? Thanks!

All these machines have their own unique pros and cons and the lesson learned for me would be if I had the room for two presses they would not be from the same manufacture.

On our 2100, the sensors were located on the bottom of the drum slide out tray, just to the left of the black drum as you face the machine. There are holes in the metal housing that we would clean with a cloth twisted to fit into the tiny spaces.

 

[kdw75]

Exactly the opposite here. The 92XX is horribly inconsistent color .

That is disappointing to hear. I had thought about getting one of those after our 7200 lease is up.

 

[kdw75]

We had the same issue with the ColorPress 1000i....This past year we have been running Iridesse and the colors are consistent from sheet to sheet and we run a lot of full sheet solids. We calibrate and clean our Machines every Monday morning it's a shop rule. Did the same when we had KM boxes in the shop.

Around here Xerox has installed a lot of these. When they first came out we priced one, but it was not only more expensive than the two 72xx machines, but the click charge was higher.

 

[[email protected]]

Exactly the opposite here. The 92XX is horribly inconsistent color .

That's not really normal behavior for 9200s. Your Ricoh service tech and solutions engineer should be able to resolve color consistency issues.

 

[ColorMonkey]

I have to say, the 9200 is one of the most color stable machines I have had my hands on. Weird to hear that.

 

[chriscozi]

That's not really normal behavior for 9200s. Your Ricoh service tech and solutions engineer should be able to resolve color consistency issues.

And I mis-stated - it is a 72XX.
And we have had a HORRIBLE service experience.
Multiple upper level service personnel visits which have left unresolved issues.
They get it balanced for a bit and then it promptly goes wonky.
We've taken to running their color calibration routine before every run - which seems to mitigate things.
Looking forward to a different machine . . . .

 

[Shawnd]

Interesting as my 7100 was fairly stable and the 7200 has been even better.

 

[chriscozi]

Interesting as my 7100 was fairly stable and the 7200 has been even better.

It started out with a 3 month delay, on the floor here, at installation - couldn't get the machine to run.
Then it ran mostly Ok for a bit and then we had service issues.
Then the attached binder gave up.
Then issues with the 5th color unit.
Then more image inconsistencies.
Now we approach each job with trepidation.
Sigh.

 

[cqb1988]

It started out with a 3 month delay, on the floor here, at installation - couldn't get the machine to run.
Then it ran mostly Ok for a bit and then we had service issues.
Then the attached binder gave up.
Then issues with the 5th color unit.
Then more image inconsistencies.
Now we approach each job with trepidation.
Sigh.

if you can log in to the service mode, check if the process control result is 11111111, if one of the color is failing, the machine not running color adjustment during the run, and causing the color shift. a good tech should be able to fix those problems easily, so they just leave the machine like this and not come back?

 

[cDirect]

And I mis-stated - it is a 72XX.
And we have had a HORRIBLE service experience.
Multiple upper level service personnel visits which have left unresolved issues.
They get it balanced for a bit and then it promptly goes wonky.
We've taken to running their color calibration routine before every run - which seems to mitigate things.
Looking forward to a different machine . . . .

Another shop has the 7200 and I do all their heavy substrate overflow and the quality is grainy compared to my smooth 9110 color. I even found a good way to make gradients look way better on it.

I advised them not to purchase the 7200 and just get the 9200 but that white and clear dazzled them…..and they hardly use those 5th station inks now.

 

[msaeger]

Another shop has the 7200 and I do all their heavy substrate overflow and the quality is grainy compared to my smooth 9110 color. I even found a good way to make gradients look way better on it.

I advised them not to purchase the 7200 and just get the 9200 but that white and clear dazzled them…..and they hardly use those 5th station inks now.

I do not see much use of those special colors either. I have seen sometimes where people are running a job where it could help and they don't have it too (like colored envelopes).

I always figured customers don't just walk in with jobs that require those special colors because they don't really know what's possible without someone selling them on it or do they just not want to pay for it?

 

[cDirect]

I do not see much use of those special colors either. I have seen sometimes where people are running a job where it could help and they don't have it too (like colored envelopes).

I always figured customers don't just walk in with jobs that require those special colors because they don't really know what's possible without someone selling them on it or do they just not want to pay for it?

Combo of both I suppose. The 7200,if I’m not mistaken, was created for Nike and released for sale to the trade after 3-4 years. The 5th color was developed to accommodate Nike’s neon green I believe.

 

[Shawnd]

I have been trying to sell 5th color for over 6 years now when we first got the 7110's, it is about impossible to sell it over the phone, and customers love it when they see it in person, but when you give them the price they all of sudden don't want 5th color.

 

[cDirect]

I have been trying to sell 5th color for over 6 years now when we first got the 7110's, it is about impossible to sell it over the phone, and customers love it when they see it in person, but when you give them the price they all of sudden don't want 5th color.

Lol. Definitely for niche jobs. I found the clear to be quite tame for a spot UV offering. I think if it had better coverage that would be a better seller. Can hardly see it unless you hold it to a light.