Ryobi 3302 toning.

[lantz_xvx]

Hi all,

It's been awhile. I'm having some toning issues with the press and I can't figure it out. It's an Itek 3985 (Ryobi 3302) with Crestlines.

Here's how I ink up: I put a nice even goop (that's a technical term) on the oscillating roller and a tiny but consistent dab on the Crestline fountain roller, then turn it on. While it's running, I drop some ink in the fountain, kick up the sweep lever a few notches and send some ink into the ink train. I generally stop it before the rollers start hissing.

Now, there are all new soft rollers in the head in question (the second one) but the Crestline rollers haven't been replaced yet. The toning I'm getting is in the middle of the sheet laterally, so from NOPS to OPS. It's very strange. A friend of mine has a Ryobi 3302 with Kompacs and he says that the toning is coming from not enough ink hitting the plate, and that what he does is add a little ink with the ink knife to help it along. I'm not sure if Kompacs and Crestlines behave the same way, in that regard. Would this actually help? I've seen elsewhere that if Crestlines get over inked, the best solution is to clean up and start over.

I'm using Universal Pink fountain solution, about one ounce in a 32oz bottle and the rest water. No alcohol sub. I run poly plates made on an HP Laserjet 5500. I previously had my form rollers set to spec from the manual, but recently decreased them because I was having scumming problems and tons of bad plate wear. The press seems to run better with smaller stripes - I'm not sure those poly plates can take all that pressure - but this toning thing is driving me nuts.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
- Lantz

 

[pdan]

Have you checked and set the forms to oscillator stripes? That's going to be more important than the form to plate stripe.
I've been known to lift one form lever & run with either 1 or 2 forms to track down stuff like this.

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey there, I did check the form to oscillator and the stripe looks good. a buddy of mine that's a press operator at another shop stopped by today. We did some troubleshooting together. We're thinking it may be the fountain solution. He uses a different press but almost the exact same water system, as well as the same places imaged on the same machine. He said he can't use Universal Pink at all, so he's gonna bring me some of his stuff and we'll see if that works. The problem seems like it could be chemical, rather than mechanical.

Although, I'm wondering about the form roller stripes. Does anyone here use a Ryobi 3302 with poly plates? If so, do you set your form roller stripes to spec or something different? Hope to get it all figured out soon.

Thanks, and have a good holiday weekend.

- Lantz

 

[Richard]

I run 3302 with poly plates. Does plate maker use photo graphic chemicals? Forms to plate should be as recommened. What about blanket to impression. Too much packing? I got kompacs, 2oz-26water. The pink stuff. Plate to forms, you want the least amount of pressures, on un coated stocks.
Don't ink up the crestline.

hope this helps.

 

[RGPW17100]

Best way to ink the water system is to ink the press up put an old plate on the plate cylinder and bridge the ink with the plate ink forms and water forms. That will get you a better more consistent ink flow. This is the best way to clean the press as well. Take a bottle of water and mix it with 20 percent vinegar. After cleaning all the ink off the rollers use this as a follow up wash. Another thing is to take the water rollers out and scrub them with pumice and water then follow up with the vinegar rinse. If this gets rid of the toning it will only be temporary. Crestlines are great when they are new but dont have a very long shelf life.

If the toning does not start up right away and gets worse as you run the ink could be piling on the meter rollers. We used to use a half oz of ARS-X alcohol sub. We did not use it for dampening but to help emulsify the build up on that roller. When ink piles on the roller it greatly reduces the amount of water that can get on the plate.

If the toning is on one unit try swapping the meter roller and see if the problem follows. If not try the water form and see if that does it.

I ran a 3302 for 9 years using poly with pink and my best was getting 2 years out of the rollers. I am betting that is the problem. Alcohol sub is a must when running poly and the only one that worked for me was Anchor ARS-X

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey, thanks for the replies, everyone. Richard - I don't pack my blanket. I don't change my impression much but that could be part of it, I'll check today. So when you ink up, you don't put a small bead of ink on the metering roller? It seems like it takes a long time for the Crestlines to ink up if you don't, and everything looks like crap. There seems to be lots of variation on this subject - the manual says to do that, and I know people that swear by it and people who never do it. Very confusing!

RGP - Thanks for your suggestions. That unit could need new Crestlines. I have new Crestlines on the first unit but haven't used it since I put new rollers in the ink train. I was waiting on a part to come in for the plate clamp. I'll see if I can isolate the issue. I'm hesitant to add alcohol sub to the mix - I don't know anyone with Crestlines that uses it. But it's a good thing to keep in mind if things get too desperate.

I'll update folks today or tomorrow when I've had some more time with it.

Thanks!

- Lantz

 

[RGPW17100]

The sub is not going to hurt you. The dose is so low it will not change the wetting ability of the fountain solution it just help liquify the ink build up on the meter roller so it can get back into the press. The piling got so bad on our press we could scrape ink off the meter roller with a business card while the press was running. What I mention about inking up you put an old plate on the plate cylinder with the press fully inked up. No water in the fountain and put the press so the ink and water form come in contact with the plate. This will transfer the ink from the ink train and ink up the damp rollers. This is known as bridging. Toss the plate add water to the water trays and print. This is the reverse of how you clean up. I assume you use an old poly plate and drop the forms to transfer the ink from the damps to the roller train and then into the clean up tray. If you are bridging on the cylinder and using 8 mil plates I am guessing your ink stripes are too big. Ryobi is backwards on their thinking. They say a 3.5 mil stripe to the plate and a 3 mil stripe to the oscillator. Should be reverse I always did about 3 mil to the plate an about 3,5 to the oscillator. You dont want the plate driving the form roller. The roller train should be driving the form roller.

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey RGP, yep, when I'm done running a plate, I keep that plate on the cylinder, engage the cleaning attachment, and keep the press in neutral until the ink train is basically clean. Then I drop the forms to the plate and use more press wash and water until the Crestlines clean up. So instead of tossing that plate then, I should keep it on the cylinder and use that to ink up next time? Is there no risk of residual press wash contaminating the ink train that way? I always follow up with water because of the specific wash I use (Brigl - the stuff is really oily) but I just want to make sure I understand correctly.

I'll see if I have better luck with your stripe settings. I can't remember if my plates are 8mil or not. I'm also going to try some different fountain solution today so I'll see if all these things together resolve the issue.

Thanks!

- Lantz

 

[lantz_xvx]

Hey everyone, I have an update. So, the new fountain solution my buddy dropped off works MUCH better. That combined with re-adjusting some roller pressures, and I think the toning is much more controllable now. But the other huge thing that has me getting nothing done is severe plate wear. My plates are disintegrating. My friend with the Ryobi + Kompacs thought that maybe my dampening pressure was too heavy, as he's experienced that problem in the past. But if I back off the dampener form, I get toning out the arse. If I set the pressure to more what it should be, the toning more or less disappears but my plates are breaking down. It's done it even after baking the plates. But I'm thinking the issue could be one of three things:

1) Plate pressure - I never used to have this problem but I did switch to some different plates awhile back and so I changed this setting. I shouldn't have messed with it, or if I did, I should have written down what it was before. The plates are 100 microns (so, 10mm?) but that setting seems to break down the plates really quickly.

2) Toner from the platemaker - perhaps the toner cartridge is defective and the platemaker isn't laying enough down? Some of the areas look pretty weak.

3) The fuser from the platemaker - if this is busted, it seems expensive to fix and might warrant a new platemaker. But I'm hoping this is an unlikely reason.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

- Lantz

 

[Tomtech]

Toning means the plate is starved for water. Check the Crestline rollers. If they appear shrunk in the middle means that the pressure in the middle it means less water to the plate at the center. Increasing the pressure will bring more water to the plate but the excess pressure seems to shorten plate life. Perhaps it is time to replace the Crestline rollers. As rollers age the rubber can compact which changes the pressures between the rollers as well as form to plate. They can become glazed and shinny and not transfer ink and swatter well. I always found that Crestline's adjustments and recommendations were a good place to start. If the first unit is performing OK, what is different about it?

Tom Tech