Sad to say, I'm on my way...

[Slammer]

Well that's me done and dusted.
After thirty years in the technical side of prepress I have hit the shoals of 50+, that certain age where in the twisted mind of our captains of industry you are simply too frikking old to do your job, I have been out of work for over a year and have sent by now over 300 CV's out into the pale blue yonder, in this time I have dredged exactly five interviews.
The worst part is being told (off the record of course) that companies, red, yellow and green, major players in our beloved industry have a policy of not hiring persons over 50.
Somehow I understand though. For years the politic has been to give over 50ties all sorts of benefits, longer holidays, wage rises, better deals on the health franchises etc..
These perks have lead to the point where the over 50ties are too much trouble to employ, add to that we ancient ones are sick more often, inflexible in our ways and not in tune with todays fast pace (note dripping sarcasm) still, it's been a good run, I have had ups and downs, done stuff that would make you cry or your jaw drop on the table, been to place where they use six inch nails as circuit breakers and repaired imagesetters with a rat infestation, and I now simply just can't get a job, so I am off on a tangent, I am doing a CELTA and will see if I can make a new career as a teacher, so that's me done, washed away like tears in the rain, makes you wonder if it was all worth it.

 

[Servicetech]

Sorry your having trouble, I did also. I was forced to leave the printing industry after a 22 year Field Service career. I should have done it years ago instead of hanging on until I was forced to move on.

 

[john beniston]

Well that's me done and dusted.
After thirty years in the technical side of prepress I have hit the shoals of 50+, that certain age where in the twisted mind of our captains of industry you are simply too frikking old to do your job, I have been out of work for over a year and have sent by now over 300 CV's out into the pale blue yonder, in this time I have dredged exactly five interviews.
The worst part is being told (off the record of course) that companies, red, yellow and green, major players in our beloved industry have a policy of not hiring persons over 50.
Somehow I understand though. For years the politic has been to give over 50ties all sorts of benefits, longer holidays, wage rises, better deals on the health franchises etc..
These perks have lead to the point where the over 50ties are too much trouble to employ, add to that we ancient ones are sick more often, inflexible in our ways and not in tune with todays fast pace (note dripping sarcasm) still, it's been a good run, I have had ups and downs, done stuff that would make you cry or your jaw drop on the table, been to place where they use six inch nails as circuit breakers and repaired imagesetters with a rat infestation, and I now simply just can't get a job, so I am off on a tangent, I am doing a CELTA and will see if I can make a new career as a teacher, so that's me done, washed away like tears in the rain, makes you wonder if it was all worth it.

What a very depressing picture you paint.
I guess there's no hope at all for those of us who are even older than you.

 

[Slammer]

Problem was that I lost my job just at the critical age, I tried to go freelance and it worked for a while but never quite good enough to work to my satisfaction, it was always on diminishing returns and when my main customer sold out I was on the dole. But I fought to the very end.

 

[margadri]

I sorry to hear Slammer. If it can be of any consolation, the entire industry is doomed. I don't think that being 20 again I would try to apply for any job in this trade. The good days are over.
I keep going 'till I will be made "redundant" myself. Too old to try to fight. Just sit, do my job and see what will happen tomorrow. Sad really. It was a fantastic adventure in the printing industry. Great people. Great fun.
BTW I am 54 and the last to be get rid just yet.
Age is nothing. 50 is the new 20.
Nobody is as reliable as an "old fart" who hasn't got a life anymore and loves going to work every morning.......

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

What a sorry state of affairs.

 

[Alith7]

I'm sorry you feel that way. What area of the country are you in?
the mid-size commercial shops in the midwest seem to not be having that problem, our problem is a shortage of skilled labor. Honestly, I just passed up a couple of decent "kids" to hire an experienced 40 something for my prepress. Maybe those big boys can afford to spend 6 months to a year breaking in a green college kid, but honestly, I don't have the time. The biggest problem I run into is wage. The really skilled techs in my area still want to try to get their huge hourly because they know that they are a valuable commodity, and they are coming from the big shops that could/would pay it. The smaller shops that are still doing quite well (and even growing a bit) can't afford those 6-figure salaries, so they price themselves out of a job. And, lets face it, those big shops closed fora reason.
So you are having such a tough time of it. But maybe you should look at what your expectations are vs the reality of what the industry can support. And, if they really dismissed you based on age, shove a discrimination suit down their throats, because that is bullshit. -nods-

edit --->
I know of a largish corporate printer in my area that had been looking for about 6-months for prepress manager, I'm not sure what/who they settled on, but I know they didn't have much for options.

 

[CathieHarris]

I sure can feel for you. I worked for a medium-sized corporation for two years beginning in February 2011 running their in-house copy center. It literally broke my back and I had to have spine surgery (my 3rd) in Dec. 2012 - 8 days later they "let me go" with a severence and insurance package. edit>>>They now have a guy that comes in 2 days a week because they're going all digital.

Now, I've found a small printshop that's family run, great values, no stress (yes, I mean that - the owner won't allow it and even didn't hire someone that seemed good but got frustrated over the pre-employment testing), and all I do is "play" with the Creative Suites creating vehicle graphics, business cards, mundane to exciting projects.

The problem? No benefits. No health insurance, no vacation pay for a year, no vacation for a year, no sick time, and the lowest wage I've made in over 10 years. It's fantastic for my spine, but hell on my finances.

So there's a trade-off, like it was mentioned. See if you can find a small, friendly little shop that just keeps plugging along. Printing, especially small commercial, won't be going the way of the dodo bird for quite a while.

Alith - where is that job you mention? I'd like to try for that...

Cathie

 

[MailGuru]

If you really feel you were not hired because of your age, that's a big federal EEOC discrimination suit just waiting to happen. Here in the states, it is against the law to discriminate against a job candidate based on race, age, sex, religion, ethnic origin, or sexual preference. Most employers who do this don't realize how much liability they are jeopardizing. Do you know what it costs you to file an EEOC discrimination complaint? Nothing, zero, zelch, nada.
It is simply dialing a 1-800 number and initiating an investigation. Does the prospective employer know what it will cost him? Usually around 50 to 60 thousand dollars in attorneys fees to defend the claim - even if they win - much more if they lose.

 

[CathieHarris]

But how do you prove it? I agree it's worth investigating, but getting that job after a lawsuit will make life there a living he++. AARP has a lot about people not getting hired or getting "let go" after 50. I hate this new "we want someone right out of college" attitude, when there are so many of us over 50 that could run circles around the younguns. I think that there's a LOT of age discrimination going on out there - all you have to do is walk into an office or shop and see the ages of all the peeps that work there. They're all young and hip, and you know right off the bat that they see you and look at the interview as a waste of time.

It really does suck!

 

[zevrix]

Instead of sending out the CVs, try to call the places instead and speak directly to the manager of the department you're interested in, not HR. It can be much more efficient and yield you much more interviews.

 

[CathieHarris]

Ok, I guess I really am getting old - why are resumes called CVs these days? What does it stand for and what's the difference?

 

[zevrix]

CV = Curriculum Vitae. It's a quite an old term. However, I only used it because it was used in the original post. I didn't see it for a long time myself and normally would say "resume".

 

[CathieHarris]

Everyone seems to be using it these days. How interesting that it's become recycled. Man, you know you're old when things that used to be in fashion grew out of fashion and then back in fashion again - and you see it. I need ice cream. :-\

 

[michaelejahn]

Mail Guru, i disagree -

Mail Guru, i disagree -

If you really feel you were not hired because of your age, that's a big federal EEOC discrimination suit just waiting to happen.

I am very sorry, but if one can't understand the questions anymore during the interview, it matters little what age you are, you probably can't do what they need. No developers I know give a flying crap about how old you are. I am 59, and what I knew in 1996 about PDF would not get me a job in 2002 at Enfocus. What I knew in 2002 would not helped me get a job at Compose in 2010. To get the job at PressWise, I needed to be able to understand SOAP and REST, understand injecting XML via APIs - that is what Prepress is these days.

Suing for age discrimination is probably not very good advice.

 

[rbailleu]

I have to agree with alith7. give me the 45+ everytime. no kids to deal with. they show up to work. down side is affordability, but if we can agree on a wage then perfect. the affordable care act should help out with health care right.

 

[Possumgal]

Besides, if you don't have anybody experienced, who is going to train these young upstarts?

 

[Erniek]

One other area that I do not see mentioned in these posts has to do with efficiency and accountability. I started in printing with a clear set of objectives and production targets. I knew where I was going and could define my pathway by that. Today there is no solid ground to run on.
Many talk of things like customer service and profitability but have no solid skill training, goal establishment guidelines, communication pathways and followup on the supposed "why we are in business and why we need you" questions. Is it no wonder that young college kids expect to have something when they leave school since they have had at least some of these things promoted to them as they went through school. The work environment has not been very supportive for their future hopes about what they will have as they get there as well.

 

[Alith7]

Is it no wonder that young college kids expect to have something when they leave school since they have had at least some of these things promoted to them as they went through school. The work environment has not been very supportive for their future hopes about what they will have as they get there as well.

Lets not forget the "entitlement" attitude that is being instilled in all the youths for probably the last 15-20 years. When I was in high school, we were told "go to college, and when you get done you will have a nice high-paying job". so, the result was/is all these college grads coming out feeling entitled to their expectations of $60k a year just because they went to college. the saddest part...they are STILL drilling that into their brains. No...the worst is that the reality is, in general, that piece of paper means, well, as a college professor told me last year, "about all your degree means is that you can follow instructions and play well with others"

--> End rant

 

[MailGuru]

Suing for age discrimination is probably not very good advice.

If you read (re-read) my post, I never suggested that he sue for discrimination. The point I was making was that employers need to be very careful about what they say, and how they conduct themselves in interviewing new candidates. It costs the non-hired candidate nothing to log a complaint (even anonomously) while it could end up costing you, the employer, thousands, even if you prevail.

I agree with you that, no matter what your age, if you don't stay abreast of the latest technological changes in your field, you'll soon become a dinosaur. I, too, am 59. I'm also a computer programmer, have been since back in the days of IBM 360/370 mainframes coding in COBOL & RPG. If I hadn't concentrated on keeping up to date, I would not be hire-able today. And yes, our company is in the midst of switching our data acqusition techniques from the standard SFTP Post/Upload/Download to RESTful consumption for many of our clients.

-Best

MailGuru