Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

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danomo_mz

New member
We are in the process of looking for a replacement for our 10 year old Trendsetter AL. It's been a good device but it's tired. 20 watt head and all. Our two top choices are the Screen Javelin 8600 and the Kodak Magnus 800. Which device is best for imaging 20 micron stochastic screening? Is Square Spot important? Is Square Spot imaging superior to conventional Gaussian laser technology like they say? What about Laser redundancy? Cost of ownership? If you were in my shoes, which would you choose?

Thanks for your comments.

Dan Martinez

Edited by: Dan Martinez on Mar 11, 2008 4:36 PM
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

hi

well, look at some other issues as well

screen unit can image quite a few thermal plates, giving a wide choice should you become dissatisfied with a plate - can the creodak?

cost of service contract/backup - i've heard creodak can be expensive (aint they all) - get a good comparison - and remember to compare like for like, so they cover the same parts etc

square spot - what will it do for you......fuji said to me one day "creo have to use a square spot as they couldn't get it to be elipse/uclidean (or whatever) - probably just the sales rubbish talk - but ya never know....

lasers - if they die will machine still run on "some" of the remaining - or stop altogether? (not good) - the screen unit will run on a few lasers at a reduced rate - will the creodak?

size/space - if its an issue - which will fit better.
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

We have a Screen 8600. It is fabulous. Fast, dependable, never seems to be a problem so far. I like the fact that it self calibrates every 13 plates. We have a scale on every plate and they all read the same! Simply doesn't drift. Also love the variable resolution for quality (vs speed). It is adaptable to all the standard resolutions such as a Fuji, Kodak or Heidelberg front ends like.

I would recommend Screen products over every other, everytime. I have been using their equipment now since 1986! In all that time, I have had only one machine that was about 10% out of spec (compared to a first scanner I bought) - they showed up at my door to fix it in the field all for free and then sat there for two days until I said it's okay.

The decision is a no brainer AFAIC.
John
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

We are using a Javelin 8600 E. It really runs well. The last place I worked had a Lotem 800.
There was a lot more plates going through that Lotem, but it seemed there were a lot more issues with the Lotem having problems than I have seen with the Javelin.
If you're using a compatible from end that will work for either, I'd probably go for the Javelin.
We are using Fuji Pro-T plates. They seem to be great with the workflow we're using.
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

Thanks for your response.

Any input from Magnus 800 users? From a purely technical view, putting a side views whether Kodak is a good company to deal with or not, what about imaging quality? Is a sharper dot important for FM screening? I've heard that if you image AM dot with Square Spot, the result is a stair stepped dot. AM dot imaged with conventional Gaussian laser technology results in a smoother rounder dot. But with FM isn't the sharper, steeper dot important? I remember in the old film days, with the Eray, Raystar and Dolevs , we were always striving to have the sharpest, hardest, high contrast dot possible with out any fringe. Is this not still the case with CTP?

Thanks Again

Dan
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

Beermonster, Fuji has given you with incorrect information.
SQUAREspot does not refer to the shape of the halftone dot. It refers to the steep energy profile of the exposing laser ("square to the surface of the plate"). It is a 10,000 dpi laser. The sub-pixel resolution provides an extremely steep energy slope, which in turn provides greater consistency in plate imaging when conditions such as plate and coating thickness and sensitivity as well as processing chemistry naturally vary. Dan is correct when he wrote that the industry was always striving to have the sharpest, hardest, high contrast dot possible with out any fringe. And this is one of the reasons for the development of SQUAREspot imaging - it has been written up in a TAGA paper and did win a GATF Tech award.
This shows graphically what I'm trying to describe.

!http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/10692G_vs_SS.jpg!

AM, FM, and XM dots - round, elliptical, square, FM or whatever shape are built using those pixels as building blocks. The ability to accurately and consistently control the halftone dot edge is critical for printers who do high frequency AM, XM or FM type screens since the smaller the dots are the more they are affected by process variations. SQUAREspot imaging allows these printers to image those types of screens in a reliable consistent manner. We even have printers taking advantage of the technology by printing 10 micron Staccato - some for 100% of their work and something that would not be possible if there was any variation in plate imaging.

SQUAREspot imaging makes use of the integrated energy from 19 laser emitters. In the unlikely event of the failure of a laser emitter, the CTP device automatically compensates and, unlike the Screen device, there is no reduction in throughput or productivity. Even if a second or third laser emitter fails, there is still no reduction in throughput or productivity.

best, gordo
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

excellent - thats a very clear explanation :)

so my question of square spot - what will it do for "them" still stands though

and if the lasers go, as you say, and it continues imaging at the same speed - i take it thats at increased power - red-lining it as it were.

i'm not knocking anything here - this is valuable info to the original poster - real world stuff
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

beermonster, ....take a look at a Staccatto10 image, and let me know if you maintain your position. As far as I know, nothing else can get close.
For most people, I suppose SquareSpot won't make a difference. Only if you run high res FM you will appreciate it.
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

Go Japanese! Do you drive american or japanese car? I drive japanese and I use Screen 8600
 
Re: Screen Javelin 8600 or Kodak Magnus 800? What would you choose?

I drive Korean and use an 8600. Love them both. But more significant is that I am 25% Japanese!
 
The optics and power of the Creo head are second to none. If you're doing the fine FM 10 micron, etc, probably the Magnus is the choice.
As a business purchase, to make money, you should go in, eyes open. Buying the Magnus is like marrying Kodak. Now, it might be a good, happy, prosperous marriage, but it is like a marriage.
The Magnus is heavily dongle protected, so your ability to change plates in a few years might be quite expensive. $10,000 to change from a Sword plate to anything they don't sell.
When it was Creo, and took the same amount of work to set up a plate, but creo had no skin in the game, a media change was free once a year with a contract, or just hourly rates without a contract. What changed? hmm.
3rd party service for the Magnus? Almost nonexistent.
Parts for DIY fixes? Nope. Call with a part number. Try to order a gas strut for your TSAL. Go ahead. They can't get it for you. Only some filters and anything they deem user serviceable.
I'm sure someone in your shop could change that gas strut that holds the plate bay door, but they insist on opening a service call and having someone come out to do it.
Now, this isn't a problem if you go in, look at it like a marriage, and get the full service contract. But just like marriage, it's expensive.
Screen? No problem here. Order parts, have Screen do it if you want. change plates. Plenty of 3rd parties (like me!) to do service. I do service on the Trendsetters too.
Also, as good as the optics are, at some point they fail and replacement means the entire head is replaced. The last time I heard a price from Kodak it was in the mid-$30k for a head, and I'm sure these days they want to be the ones doing it, so add a few k more.
20 watt heads are no longer available from Kodak, except for contract customers.
For Screen, you picked the best, IMO, the 8600.
Very low service/issues/problems
 
i will choose 8600... SCREEN IS THE BEST... Here in the philippines creodak is number 1 in terms of number of installation,, (bcoz the machine is FREE but u need to buy consumables in 5 years contract) but after the installation,, printers ask their self WHY kodak??? why i didnt choose screen???,, but they cant return their machines... "Maybe they are being hypnotize by the dealer" joke...!!!! SCREEN users is more happy than kodak user's.. Super less headache...
 
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