Stahl folder inconsistent folding

[Norm Gensel]

Malcom and Al,

Your banter back and forth has merit. I can offer a technical explanation of the so-called "superior" design as Malcolm likes to think, but it isn't what he [Malcolm] thinks. The spiral roller is cheaply manufactured and is not a solid component through the roller. It is an applied overlay; specifically, it is a band applied in the roller manufacturing process. Does it make it better? I don't think so. Malcolm, if you would like to discuss it further, please IM me, you are way off the mark and distorted in your understanding and view of reality. I, quite frankly, don't care about your 20+ years experience, what I have learned is, that in the Bindery area, we've learned through the "School of Hard Knocks." If you start to consider the differences, well, there are a whole different set of topics to discuss.

Malcolm offers his disgruntled opinion of fold rollers and boasts his 20+ years experience, OK, I have 30...what does that mean? I have run them all...Dexters, Clevelands, Shoeis, MBOs, Stahls, Vijuks, etc. So what? Do they bend paper? Then the machine does what it is supposed to do. Are machines over engineered? What the hell does that mean? Please, consider what you are asking and debating. Technology mandates improvements. The original post for this question does not account for the technological advances that have been made in folding machines so let's keep it there. We are dealing with a 20 to 25 year old machine.

Get over it Malcolm. The machines available today all have value and worth. Contrary to your limited understanding, machines are only as good as the operator who runs them, which doesn't say much for you. Pipe down and listen, you might learn something! Stop tooting your experience horn and read! Automation is reality, there is no turning back! Over-engineering...please...think about the up-and-comers who are filling the ranks of "Operators." Long Sheet...you must really be a poor operator if you don't know how to "fix" that problem. It means that you didn't take the time to properly set the feeder. Long sheet is caused by having a drag-double pulled behind the sheet being fed. Come on...really? Oh, wait, that is a design problem...yeah, right. It couldn't be because you don't know what you are doing. But blame it on the machine, it doesn't have a voice...that's the easy way out. It's never the operator...right?

 

[Norm Gensel]

Al,

Thanks for your interest. If you Google "folding machine history," you will find several hits. IM me and we can chat.

 

[Norm Gensel]

Al, are you still online? If so let's chat.

 

[Al Ferrari]

Norm,

I consider your personal attack on Malcom highly unprofessional and out of place. You owe him an apology. You can best serve the community here by staying on topic.

Thanks for your answer on the history question.

Al Ferrari

 

[Al Ferrari]

See my 11:44 response to your post at 10:58 today on this thread.

Al

 

[Norm Gensel]

No, Al. I will not apologize. I stand by what I said and it is not a personal attack. If one is going to place a post and offer an opinion, then so be it. I have the same option. I am not attacking anyone, nor should I be attacked. I am merely pointing out that the differences of roller design is not the issue here, unlike your statement that I am off topic, my original response was most certainly on topic. This portion of the reponses to the original issue, folding problems, has morphed into something other than the issue. I am not touting any design superiority or deficiency of any machines. If you or anyone else feel that I am attacking anyone, let me be clear, I am not, and that is not and never was my intention. I am a professional, contrary to your belief. I am not candy coating a response so as to not hurt someone's feelings. It is an affront to me and all other "professionals" when someone qualifies their position by pointing out their years of experience as the sole criterion for their knowledge and have no technical evidence to support their claims. I did not qualify myself or my answer by telling anyone my years of experience, yet when I dismiss someone else's comment, I am charged with being unprofessional.

I would be more than happy to answer the original post and solve this persons dilemma. I am not, as I said in my earlier post, debating one machine versus another. There is a systematic, step-by-step approach to finding out the problem and then implementing a solution. If the original poster would like to work toward a solution I would be happy to do so.

I will respond no more.

Good luck to you all.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Well this thread turn a different leaf.... As to the original problem, I asked a couple of basic questions and somehow the OP either did not respond or it was figured out. I always like to see the end result in a thread like this so people can learn from it. As far as debating a machine, it really boils down to who can make a machine run like it should. You guys can talk roller material and plate angles but in my experience a good operator can make a job run on just about any folder assuming the machine is in operating order. Technicians are a great resource and they see more in the field than any of us will see in our life time. A skilled operator will be able to see the job through from start to finish. I have seen mechanics who need to throw their tool boxes in the river and operators who need to flip burgers. I think most people would agree...


John Weaver

 

[Norm Gensel]

Agreed. If you read my last post, I said essentially the same thing, I just added the commentary regarding the rollers, to "clear the air," if you will. I do not think that all of the details were ferreted out from the initial post, so in reading the number of responses, I found it interesting that somehow, a debate forms as to who has the better design. I agree with you, an operator can make the machine run regardless of who made it.