I recently agreed to purchase a Ricoh machine but found it terribly disappointing and it wasn't fit for purpose - I have a list as long as my arm on reasons why but it looks like they're forcing it to go legal. Could anyone who's successfully rejected a machine please PM me with advice?
Terrible Ricoh experience - anyone rejected a machine?
- Thread starter dagoof
- Start date
chriscozi
Well-known member
See Gordo's excellent toon here for an explanation:
"Vendor's Explanation"
PS - I keep this posted on my board and point it out to all visiting salesmen.
"Vendor's Explanation"
PS - I keep this posted on my board and point it out to all visiting salesmen.
I think it was a lot more cut and dry than unrealistic customer expectations. For the sake of clarity, the general capability of the machine wasn't good compared to other makers' I've ran: image quality on photographics was unacceptably sub-par, its operating speed was fairly slow and the paper handling on heavy stocks was rubbish (compared to a similarly classed machine I have by another manufacturer).
Literally the only thing it had going for it, IMO, was good registration.
However, that's not the crux of it, the long and short of it was reliability: the machine had nearly a dozen calls in the first 8 weeks. I've ran several machines over the years but this was the worst by a long shot. Not only the machine itself but the quality of service, I don't think I had a tech out the same day on a single one of my service calls, so the 4hr window promised was very misleading.
On one occassion, it took 3 days to get a tech out (my having to chase them on each successive day). When we finally had a visit, a part had to be ordered (from another country, no less) which meant we were down a full week for that 1 issue. Combined with the other issues, it brought my business to its knees.
But I'm honestly not looking to debate the comparable status of Ricoh machines, I'm looking to hear from anyone who's been in a similar position and asking for helpful advice. I am of course consulting a lawyer too.
Literally the only thing it had going for it, IMO, was good registration.
However, that's not the crux of it, the long and short of it was reliability: the machine had nearly a dozen calls in the first 8 weeks. I've ran several machines over the years but this was the worst by a long shot. Not only the machine itself but the quality of service, I don't think I had a tech out the same day on a single one of my service calls, so the 4hr window promised was very misleading.
On one occassion, it took 3 days to get a tech out (my having to chase them on each successive day). When we finally had a visit, a part had to be ordered (from another country, no less) which meant we were down a full week for that 1 issue. Combined with the other issues, it brought my business to its knees.
But I'm honestly not looking to debate the comparable status of Ricoh machines, I'm looking to hear from anyone who's been in a similar position and asking for helpful advice. I am of course consulting a lawyer too.
jwheeler
Well-known member
I have not personally been through this, but I have seen accounts in my area go through this, some with success, and some without...and with various vendors, not targeting anyone. So with that said:
You may already be doing this, but start documenting EVERYTHING. Have a log showing when you placed a call, then make the tech sign it when he arrives noting the date/time, and have another column where he signs/prints his name that it was resolved. This will help prove they are not holding up to their promises. The log should also have a place to write the current meter reading to show how little amount of prints you're able to get between CPC's. Don't rely on the techs writing this down because they often run dozens if not hundreds of impressions during a service call to run tests. Along these lines, you may also want to track those clicks and see if you're being charged for those service test clicks. Normally you do pay for them, but based on the amount of issues you're having, the machine might be a lemon and you shouldn't have to pay for excessive test prints.
You might also want to review if you have actual documentation guaranteeing a 4hr response. In my experience, every vendor's sales rep will verbally say this is the average, but they don't always guarantee it in writing. You should have received a 'Customer Expectation Booklet' or similarly named document which might have something related to this.
Typically, you will have to give the vendor a chance to replace the machine in case it may be a lemon. If the machine is really not meeting what the specs say it will do (meaning it won't actually staple 50 sheets in a 50 sheet stapler, or won't duplex approved 350gsm media when the specs say it will) then you'll have a stronger case. If you just don't like the quality/look of photos, that is quite subjective and they could argue that you had a chance to do a demo and run test prints before you bought it.
You may already be doing this, but start documenting EVERYTHING. Have a log showing when you placed a call, then make the tech sign it when he arrives noting the date/time, and have another column where he signs/prints his name that it was resolved. This will help prove they are not holding up to their promises. The log should also have a place to write the current meter reading to show how little amount of prints you're able to get between CPC's. Don't rely on the techs writing this down because they often run dozens if not hundreds of impressions during a service call to run tests. Along these lines, you may also want to track those clicks and see if you're being charged for those service test clicks. Normally you do pay for them, but based on the amount of issues you're having, the machine might be a lemon and you shouldn't have to pay for excessive test prints.
You might also want to review if you have actual documentation guaranteeing a 4hr response. In my experience, every vendor's sales rep will verbally say this is the average, but they don't always guarantee it in writing. You should have received a 'Customer Expectation Booklet' or similarly named document which might have something related to this.
Typically, you will have to give the vendor a chance to replace the machine in case it may be a lemon. If the machine is really not meeting what the specs say it will do (meaning it won't actually staple 50 sheets in a 50 sheet stapler, or won't duplex approved 350gsm media when the specs say it will) then you'll have a stronger case. If you just don't like the quality/look of photos, that is quite subjective and they could argue that you had a chance to do a demo and run test prints before you bought it.
That's the only thing (from the info you've provided) that can be considered as hard facts in the courtroom. I hope you have a log or something like that about problems, call times and tech person's arrive times. If you can prove somehow, that they broke the service agreement, you might get better service or a replacement machine from them.
Documentation wins cases. Did you get approved prints done on the machine during install, both you and the Tech should have signed them? You keep those in a file to reference when the print goes bad. I know a few printers that had to wheel the boxes into storage while the whole battle went to lawyers, they got another vendor to come in and install a working box in the meantime. Last I checked they were still in negotiations after 6 years.
noelward
Well-known member
Dagoof---
To what extent have you tried to escalate this with Ricoh? I know the higher end players at most of the vendors and may be able to help.
ALL the vendors have assorted weaknesses in their sales and service forces (and issues like yours) that are often unknown to the right people in the main HQ. I have horror stories about nearly every vendor. Email me some details and your contact info and I'll see what I can shake loose. I'm at noelward1 at icloud.com.
To what extent have you tried to escalate this with Ricoh? I know the higher end players at most of the vendors and may be able to help.
ALL the vendors have assorted weaknesses in their sales and service forces (and issues like yours) that are often unknown to the right people in the main HQ. I have horror stories about nearly every vendor. Email me some details and your contact info and I'll see what I can shake loose. I'm at noelward1 at icloud.com.
noelward
Well-known member
Haven't heard from you yet. You might be getting caught in my spam/junk filter. Let me know how to reach you.Thanks Noel, I'll be in touch
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