Test Igen compared to docucolor 260

[zBret]

I had some test ran on a Igen vs a doc 260 results seem to be the same, color looks the same on both printed projects, sharpness detail wasnt there on either pieces printed, printed on 100# gloss cover and 100 # gloss text, the printed pieces have pinstripes and brass hardware which seemed to be broken up, seems to be pixellated compared to the previous job that ran on an offset press, my question is, is this normal for digital prints, no fine detail? Why purchase an Igen if Doc 260 has the same effect any thoughts
on this would be appriciated...
Thanks

 

[X33]

Why purchase an Igen if Doc 260 has the same effect any thoughts
on this would be appriciated...

why purchase an F1 Ferrari when a Toyota Camry can run the same Formula 1 circuit? They both have 4 wheels.

there are many variables to consider when printing files in digital. I can take a file that was designed for digital printing that when you try to print it in offset it will also come out pixelated.

about the scratches/pinstripes, you shouldn't see that. those units need some kind of service.

 

[BAB Print]

My understanding is that one major difference in these models is that the Igen has a much higher capacity fuser unit. That allows it to run cover weight stock at the same speed as text weight. Because the 260's fuser is not as hearty it has to run cover stock through much slower = your customer doesn't get their jobs as quickly. I may be wrong, but I think the Igen can duplex 100# cover and up where again because of the fuser limitation, the 260 requires "manual" duplexing i.e. running one side, then running it back through.

In regard to the pixelation, we uses Xerox digital here and they are 2400 dpi. Unless there is something wrong with the file, although the dot isn't quite as clean, there is definitely not visibly noticeable pixelation compared to our offset presses.

 

[zBret]

why purchase an F1 Ferrari when a Toyota Camry can run the same Formula 1 circuit? They both have 4 wheels.

there are many variables to consider when printing files in digital. I can take a file that was designed for digital printing that when you try to print it in offset it will also come out pixelated.

about the scratches/pinstripes, you shouldn't see that. those units need some kind of service.

maybe i missed phrase that the printed piece looks good on offset, it DOES NOT look good digital...
Detail Detail is gone from digital printing...

 

[zBret]

My understanding is that one major difference in these models is that the Igen has a much higher capacity fuser unit. That allows it to run cover weight stock at the same speed as text weight. Because the 260's fuser is not as hearty it has to run cover stock through much slower = your customer doesn't get their jobs as quickly. I may be wrong, but I think the Igen can duplex 100# cover and up where again because of the fuser limitation, the 260 requires "manual" duplexing i.e. running one side, then running it back through.

In regard to the pixelation, we uses Xerox digital here and they are 2400 dpi. Unless there is something wrong with the file, although the dot isn't quite as clean, there is definitely not visibly noticeable pixelation compared to our offset presses.

BAB
have you ever printed sharp images with jewelry and fine detail or caskets, the results from offset printing
vs digital is amazing im not pleased with digital output sharpness, is this is normal for digital I just need to learn more about digital as we are an offset house, anyways the same pdf file was used for offset and digital, maybe its possible the digital prints I had tested were printed poorly...
thanks for the info Bab

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

Both a 260 and iGen use fuser oil. You might consider a digital press that does not have fuser oil for more of an offset look. Since both units you looked at were Xerox the unit from that manufacturer would be the 700, also one of their DC AP models (still has oil) may provide more of what you are looking for.

 

[kire]

Hello

Its quite fun to see all the Xerox disciples in the forum have some problems to answer this question. Igen3 and 4 is for the most of the xerox hurdle so close to heaven many of them will come in this life and even try to compare this with a low end low life machine as 260 is like cursing in a church, but it is from the same "holy father" so it is family and then becoming a problem. For the rest of us, this is how the world is, sometimes thing can be unfair and maybe difficult to understand. And to quote X33 "why purchase an F1 Ferrari when a Toyota Camry can run the same Formula 1 circuit? They both have 4 wheels" . Yes why would you?? If the Toyota Camry does exactly the same and time was not the purpose I would absolutely prefer the Camry.

Regards Kire

 

[zBret]

Both a 260 and iGen use fuser oil. You might consider a digital press that does not have fuser oil for more of an offset look. Since both units you looked at were Xerox the unit from that manufacturer would be the 700, also one of their DC AP models (still has oil) may provide more of what you are looking for.

I will see if I can get same images run on a 700, i would like to see the differences
thanks

 

[BAB Print]

We've printed tons of jobs, but definitely no caskets, possibly jewelry though. Our RIP converts everything to pdf, so you have to watch your compression settings i.e. if the fine detail is important, you may not want to have Distiller set up for JPG compression. Also, the print settings from the application make a big difference i.e. in Indesign, make sure you're using high resolution in for flattening, and maybe consider turning off the graphic optimization. I know it shouldn't make a difference, but I've seen some pretty terrific difference in output quality from changing just these two settings. We also discovered that in Quark, one of the *newer* drivers provided by Xerox does not allow you to choose 2400 dpi print out of Quark resulting in lower quality output even though the file is pristine. As I said earlier, a digital dot is never going to rival an offset dot (especially now that film has been eliminated and the offset dot is first generation). However, we get some surprisingly nice digital results when all of the input and output parameters are set up correctly.

 

[amsman]

Digital Imaging vs Offset Imaging

Digital Imaging vs Offset Imaging

We run a DC 5000AP with a Creo CX50 RIP where low quality and small (size) images print muddy compared to offset plates.

You have to design your work to suit digital, hi res images, slightly thicker type when reversing out of heavy solids etc....

There's a few negatives with digital compared to offset and this is one of them. It's all part of the learning curve we are going through at the moment.

Through our Zitron ( Harlequin ) RIP, even a 72dpi web image will look reasonable off a 200lpi plate.

 

[X33]

here's some literature on how to design for digital printing :

ProfitAccelerator: Creative Services Solutions for Graphic Design Professionals

 

[Josh]

"Why purchase an iGen..."

Well it's going to come down to volume and cost, you're probably going to be looking at running say 20,000 impressions p/m on the 250 whereas you'd probably be running 500,000 on the iGen.

On the 250 the click charge is going to be 6-7p, so if you decided you wanted to run 24 hours per day 5 days a week to get your 500,000 volume done the bill is going to be £30,000.

On the iGen the click charge is going to be 2-3p which will mean the bill is "only" £10,000.

So well worth having the iGen if you've actually got the volume.

 

[GregNac19]

Both a 260 and iGen use fuser oil. You might consider a digital press that does not have fuser oil for more of an offset look. Since both units you looked at were Xerox the unit from that manufacturer would be the 700, also one of their DC AP models (still has oil) may provide more of what you are looking for.

I will give you $100 cash if you find a 260 that uses fuser oil!

 

[RKS]

We just purchased a 700 through Fuji and their color/system analysts set the machine up to match our presses using Gracol 7. The quality is amazing. And no rivers and valleys compared to machines that have fuser oil.

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

I will give you $100 cash if you find a 260 that uses fuser oil!

Sorry 240/250

http://download.support.xerox.com/p...ny-os/en/DC250_Training_Information_Guide.pdf

DocuColor 240/250
Information Guide 101

Transparency Stock

Some helpful hints for using transparencies:
• Fan transparencies to stop them sticking together.
• Load transparencies on top of a small stack of same-size paper.
• If a coating of fuser oil remains on the transparency after printing, remove
it with a lint free cloth.

 

[X33]

Sorry 240/250

Xerox DocuColor 240/250/242/252/260 don't use fuser oil.

that's a typo in the documentation.

 

[buckeye77]

Worried about quality and cost

Worried about quality and cost

If you want the offset quality at the lowest cost per sheet, why not look at the new DI's that are on the market, not near as much service needed and quality is in 300 line. Over 500 sheets, you can beat the cost per sheet. Just a thought.

 

[Craig]

If you want the offset quality at the lowest cost per sheet, why not look at the new DI's that are on the market, not near as much service needed and quality is in 300 line. Over 500 sheets, you can beat the cost per sheet. Just a thought.

So, tell me how much it will cost in plates/ink/chemicals to run 1000 sheets 4/4. My cost is $52.50 US on a DC8000AP. Also, it's kinda rough running variable data on a DI. At the end of the day my service is turn off the switch, no chemicals, rag, inks... I average 1.5 service calls per month.

 

[zBret]

meteor DP60PRo

meteor DP60PRo

are they any users using this digital printer, whats the pro and cons of this printer?

MGI impression numérique