Toner overages by KMBS

[dencen]

Anyone have an issue with KMBS coming back to them after about a year and charging them for exces toner usage usage?

 

[Mark H]

Dencen,

Well, with all things contractual I would start by reviewing the contract, and then go from there.

Mark H

 

[Craig]

I bet the bank it is in the contract. Sales monkey probably told you he/she has never heard KMBS (Konica Minolta Bull $hit) actually enforcing it and you signed anyway. Good Luck fighting it!

 

[[email protected]]

I'd anticipate more and more dealers charging for overage coverage or having coverage stipulations in the future...especially with color devices becoming more predominant everywhere.

 

[Possumgal]

It's probably with the click charge in the contract, as in this click charge at an estimated this percent average coverage. If any coverage percentage is in the contract, estimated or otherwise, that's the sticky point.

 

[dencen]

It is in the contract in fine print in the next to last paragraph.However our "sales monkeys" have been doing business with us for many years and there have never been any surprises with him until now.Also the biggest point is that they waited many months to make us aware of this fact instead of early on when the alleged overage would have only been a few dollars,not many thousands of dollars.

 

[[email protected]]

gotta watch that sneaky fine print...

 

[Possumgal]

Not a good sign. When companies start enforcing things like this that they let slide previously, especially as in your case when they could have done it long ago, it sounds as if the company is scrambling for revenue for some reason. Either that or they just got a new tightwad in upper management whose focus is on the bottom line rather than the customer.

 

[arossetti]

We have had 5% increases with a KM dealer for the past 2 years, our first experience with KM. We have had Xerox for 30 years and never had an annual increase. This will weigh in heavily when it is time for us to renew contracts.

 

[Craig]

Arosetti - It depends on how the lease is structured. My first lease with Xerox I had a variable click rate, real low to start with, but increases 5 to 7% each year. After that lease the clicks were locked for the life of the lease thereafter.

 

[[email protected]]

interesting stuff...but what is/was the base rate and volume commitments, if any.

Was the click charge in favor of the end user or in favor of the vendor, or fairly balanced?

 

[dencen]

the click rate was basically industry standard,and we are doing about 200,000 clicks a month.

 

[lfelton]

This thread is hilarious. When I bought my first Xerox DC12 back in 2002, the first thing that people warned me was to get a physical signed letter from someone in a position of authority at Xerox that LIMITED the yearly increase. I requested this and the sales person squealed like a stuck pig that this was completely impossible, had never been done before, and they would never, ever put much of an increase on clicks. In fact, most of his customers "never had any price increases". Pre-warned, I stuck to my guns and got the signed letter. Funny enough, a year later a letter came from Xerox with a massive click charge increase. I think my maximum agreed increase was 5% and after some increasingly harsh words with Xerox, they finally agreed to limit my increase to 5%. I was not on a cheap click deal!

So, is Xerox the lone black hat in this industry? If you believe that, you will get eaten alive on your first contract. I insisted on the exact same thing with Konica-Minolta when I bought our first one of those. Sure enough, there was a massive increase applied on the first anniversary, only resolved by producing the PHYSICAL signed letter from Konica Minolta. Make sure that you get the written agreement for EVERY press you buy. I've even had vendors insist that a maximum increase agreement only applied to the FIRST press bought. Luckily I get a signed agreement with EVERY new contract.

This toner overage on a Konica contract was tried on with me on the last (C8000) press. I point blank refused to sign and they finally agreed to scrub that clause.

BTW - quote from EVERY digital printer sales person I have ever bought from: "I can't believe that you read the entire contract, we never have anyone do that!". There's a lesson there somewhere.

 

[KopyBoss]

In the past we have had the same battle with Xerox & Konica trying to raise rates. Xerox will try and hit you with a 10% increase every year. All our contract know are fixed prices for term of contract which means no increase. You have to read the fine print and remember the sales person will tell you anything to sell you the equipment.

 

[[email protected]]

Price increases can be understandable to a point. I'm not the manufacturer so my situation can be different.

I find communication can help with any problems. First, I never arbitrarily do a price increase even if I'd be allowed to in the contract. I believe many companies will do it just because they can.

So my price increases are rarer and usually tied to a specific reason. Ie., the manufacturer is charging me more for toners, or UPS or FedEx upped their shipping prices and gas fees again, etc., etc.

I think most people would be more receptive if they were given a good reason for a price increase.

------

Of course with bigger companies like Xerox, KMBS, etc., it's hard to give reasons like so and so just got a few million in raises, bonuses, and stock options and somebody (that's you) has to pay for it so that our profits still look good on wall street and to investors.

 

[JustPrint!]

That's pathetic from KMBS. Cowardly I would say. I never heard of that. WOW!!!
What they tried to do with me is limit my toner orders. Till I went ape s***t on them and showed them samples of what we print and they were ok.
But to charge you later for it, is how can I say it, complete BS.

 

[Keith]

Before I got my Xerox I looked at a KM and the dealer said, "...we can do the click rate for that much but we may have to adjust the contract depending upon your toner usage...".

Like Craig, I got my click rate locked in for the life of the lease. Business ownership has enough surprises. If I can eliminate one somewhere, I'll do it. It makes life a little bit easier.