trimmer on V80/180 jamming often due to small paper trimmings

[YourCastle]

Hi all, my fore/face trimmer at the end of my printer has small pieces of paper that fail to fall into the waste bin, they collect and then disrupt the sensors causing jams. I only get about 10 books out between jams. I vacuum every jam, but since I can't open the doors until a jam, i can't do any preventative cleaning, I just have to wait for a jam.

Has anyone else had this problem? Did you find a solution?

I'd like to keep the doors open on the E2-E3 sections and just direct a fan at it to keep the sensors clear, but I'd need to figure out how to run the machine with the doors open.

Thanks!
steve

 

[ReproElectroProspero]

Do you have a service contract? We had this issue and had the tech out a bunch of times to fix it. He eventually did. Something about the way the internals moved was causing it not to properly clear the waste trims. It's definitely not intended behavior to jam every 10 booklets. Something's wrong that needs adjustment.

If you don't have a service contract, I'll try to ask him next time we call him in and get a better answer for you.

EDIT: And to clarify, you're talking about the squarefold booklet trimmer, right? There may be another trim module that you're talking about that and if that's the case I'm gonna be no help lol

 

[YourCastle]

Hi, thanks, we do have a service contract. He was out yesterday. Yes, square trimmer.

Thanks for your feedback. I have a new call in and will tell him "Something about the way the internals moved was causing it not to properly clear the waste trims."

In the meantime, I'm thinking of putting in some 20mm fans to point at the sensors to keep the dust/small pieces clear

 

[tngcas]

We had this problem as well and eventually ended up just going back to manually trimming them on the guillotine cutter because it was faster than dealing with the jams. It was mostly an issue when we wanted a narrower trim (if you do a wider trim it doesn't happen as much) but I can't do a wider trim on some of our jobs.

 

[YourCastle]

We had this problem as well and eventually ended up just going back to manually trimming them on the guillotine cutter because it was faster than dealing with the jams. It was mostly an issue when we wanted a narrower trim (if you do a wider trim it doesn't happen as much) but I can't do a wider trim on some of our jobs.

I'm now in a internal real estate print shop. I don't have a guillotine any more, only V80, V180, and duplo 616, or I'd do the guillotine. Good solution tho.

I thought about doing a wider trim so the pieces have more weight to fall, but we have so many marketing pieces already designed that I can't redo them.

I will think about digging into my hot folders to see if i can page shift and/or scale so I can do a bigger trim. Thanks for making me think along those lines a second time as I bet I could do that and I hadn't thought of that before!

thanks, y'all rock!

 

[auscop123]

We had the same issue this winter with our V180 square trimmer.

Before the first service call we were doing a hair trim and with just enough static electricity the trimmings would move with the book and not properly falling into the waste container. The tech informed us to trim larger pieces so they are more likely to go where they are intended instead of causing a jam.

For the second service call we were trimming about .25" to prevent the issue from the first service call. However, these pieces were causing a blockade where the trimmings fall into the container. This caused trimmings to pile up and once again cause a jam. This time when the tech came out he took apart the whole trimming module to completely clear it and check the gearings to ensure they were not the culprit. Turns out a couple of the gears had warn weird and the trimmings were angled weird before falling.

2 lessons here. 1.) Low humidity and static electricity can cause all sorts of headaches when it comes to printing with these digital machines. 2.) Xerox techs don't always fix the underlying issue first time.

 

[YourCastle]

Turns out a couple of the gears had warn weird and the trimmings were angled weird before falling.

2 lessons here. 1.) Low humidity and static electricity can cause all sorts of headaches when it comes to printing with these digital machines. 2.) Xerox techs don't always fix the underlying issue first time.

Thanks! I'll ask about the gears. I wonder if they keep track of usage? like maybe the gears have a estimated lifespan?

thanks for your input! i'll ask the tech to explore more.

 

[ReproElectroProspero]

We had the same issue this winter with our V180 square trimmer.

Before the first service call we were doing a hair trim and with just enough static electricity the trimmings would move with the book and not properly falling into the waste container. The tech informed us to trim larger pieces so they are more likely to go where they are intended instead of causing a jam.

For the second service call we were trimming about .25" to prevent the issue from the first service call. However, these pieces were causing a blockade where the trimmings fall into the container. This caused trimmings to pile up and once again cause a jam. This time when the tech came out he took apart the whole trimming module to completely clear it and check the gearings to ensure they were not the culprit. Turns out a couple of the gears had warn weird and the trimmings were angled weird before falling.

2 lessons here. 1.) Low humidity and static electricity can cause all sorts of headaches when it comes to printing with these digital machines. 2.) Xerox techs don't always fix the underlying issue first time.

This is a great post. We had to have the tech out several times to fix it when we had this issue. I suspect it was the same cause, but I wasn't running point so I don't know the details.

 

[gregbatch]

Maybe you can find a spot to wire-tie some tubing with holes in it to blow the trim in, and hook it up to this air pump: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDKRYC6/
It's only 2 CFM, but that's not bad coming out of a 1/4" hose.

If we keep our D-125, I may try using it to add some blower in the hi-cap feeder to help separate perforated shells.

 

[YourCastle]

Maybe you can find a spot to wire-tie some tubing with holes in it to blow the trim in, and hook it up to this air pump: Amazon.com
It's only 2 CFM, but that's not bad coming out of a 1/4" hose.

If we keep our D-125, I may try using it to add some blower in the hi-cap feeder to help separate perforated shells.

I like that idea, however that sounds like more modification to the press than my bosses or techs would probably allow. I'm willing to do it!

I was thinking of somehow getting a usb cord into the unit without modification to attach to 20mm computer fans and just pointing the fan at the sensor. Affixing the small fan somehow so it doesn't move around.

But first... coffee! No, first, tech is coming back today. I'm going to ask him about gears and rollers, per above. Then I'm going to ask about attaching a strip of thin brush, like you'd see at Unit 4A on the folder/stitcher to the E2 unit before the sensor going to E3. I just need it to brush the small paper off enough to not block the sensor.

 

[gregbatch]

No real modification. You put the pump outside and find a hole to snake the tube through and hope there is a cross-member to tie it too. Hopefully there will be a mechanical issue found that can be resolved.

 

[tngcas]

I like that idea, however that sounds like more modification to the press than my bosses or techs would probably allow. I'm willing to do it!

I was thinking of somehow getting a usb cord into the unit without modification to attach to 20mm computer fans and just pointing the fan at the sensor. Affixing the small fan somehow so it doesn't move around.

But first... coffee! No, first, tech is coming back today. I'm going to ask him about gears and rollers, per above. Then I'm going to ask about attaching a strip of thin brush, like you'd see at Unit 4A on the folder/stitcher to the E2 unit before the sensor going to E3. I just need it to brush the small paper off enough to not block the sensor.

Let us know what he says, if you're able to add a brush I might want to do the same.

 

[YourCastle]

Let us know what he says, if you're able to add a brush I might want to do the same.

There was no where to add a brush without installing some kind of crossbar to which it could attach.

He looked at the gears and belts and thought they looked fine. He thinks it has to be static. I'm going to requisition a better humidifier as my current one tops out at 27%, but is usually close to 10%. It's very dry here in Denver. Tech wiped down many components with an anti-static liquid on a cloth and the machine ran a lot better. I'll anti-static wipe (and vacuum) each time there's a jam as there's no way to get into E2 and E3 without a jam, so I can't do anything preventative.

Humidity is so bad here my paper stock goes bad if not used within a month or so.

No real modification. You put the pump outside and find a hole to snake the tube through and hope there is a cross-member to tie it too. Hopefully there will be a mechanical issue found that can be resolved.

oh, I think i get it now, great idea! I'll explore doing that regardless of other options.


It seems like good airflow reduces static issues? I started running the fan on medium-high for my duplo (dc 616) and only adjust elevator and separator for double feed issues, eventho the manual says to reduce air flow for double feed.


Thanks all for the feedback and ideas!

EDIT: The previous company I worked at had an 'industrial' humidifier and we kept the shop at 40%, so these issues were way less.

 

[VanCleef]

Ahhh, thought static might be the issue. Having this same issue with our Versant now. Just gonna have to babysit it for now as raising the humidity in here would be no easy feat, big building. It might get 3 books through the trimmer or 20, we never know and now I know why. The quick changes in temperature in here in the mornings are building up a static charge for now. This prob should fix itself in a week or three.

 

[Possumgal]

Maybe you can try an anti-static spray as well. I used to have more problems like this with certain stocks. Another thing I did was empty the trimmings tray every time the machine stopped for other reasons. Keeping it cleared out helped a little.

 

[VanCleef]

I've noticed as the inside temperature here gets stabilized as the day goes on the problem goes away. When we're warming up the building in the morning the static becomes an issue.