What digital engines are comparible to the Xerox 5000, 7000/8000

[LodAssoc]

I'm looking to replace mt Xerox DC7002 with a different machine. I'm fed up with Xerox Corporation and nee dto find an alternate.

I'm currently running a DC7002, and have ran a DC5000 before that. I'm looking for something with the same capablilities: large sheet (12.5x19, or bigger), decent speed, VDP, good quality/color (many reprints), 300+ gsm (and able to auto duplex heavy stock. As well as a high capacity stacker. Any thoughts?

I need to work fast!

 

[lfelton]

I'm looking to replace mt Xerox DC7002 with a different machine. I'm fed up with Xerox Corporation and nee dto find an alternate.

I'm currently running a DC7002, and have ran a DC5000 before that. I'm looking for something with the same capablilities: large sheet (12.5x19, or bigger), decent speed, VDP, good quality/color (many reprints), 300+ gsm (and able to auto duplex heavy stock. As well as a high capacity stacker. Any thoughts?

I need to work fast!

First of all, I'm amazed that Xerox hasn't sorted this yet. Best result all round is of course getting your 7002 working to CED.

The most comparable on paper is the Canon 6000/7000VP. Be prepared for a bunch of Canon sales reps on this forum to tell you how wonderful they are and a bunch of Xerox reps tell you how crap they are. If you are lucky, you might be able to pick out someone who actually uses one rather than sells one in all the replies. When we made a machine decision it was (1)KM (2)Xerox (3)Canon on order of cost/benefit, but you may well be doing different work to us.

Ricoh also has a 90ppm machine in this class.

(of course, I left out the HP5500 as it's at least 3x the price of your 7002)

We use two KM 6501s and put on a million plus (double size) clicks on each a year. We are scheduled to start upgrading to c8000s later this year, assuming we're happy with them of course. The print quality on the 6501 is very similar to the 7002, we have thousands of happy customers. The print quality on the c8000 is significantly better, it has KM's version of ACQS and will run 350gsm all day long and has a few other nice features. As the official launch isn't for another few weeks, that's all probably academic to you.

BTW, don't get hung up on BS merchants who will talk about certain machines being "fast plastic" etc. We run "proper" presses and I can tell you categorically that ALL these machines are just jumped up photocopiers. However, they are damn useful hunks of plastic that now make us nearly as much net profit as our "big iron" machines.

 

[Craig]

Ditto what lfelton said, he covered about all the bases. I am going to be curious to see the new KM box as well. Our only issue is the local service/sales are shady at best.

I would ask Xerox to get you a 8000AP to see if it would work. I am very pleased with the overall performance of ours. Maybe they would get you one as a loaner until their new 800/1000 comes out??

 

[rDuke3]

EIther the Ricoh Pro C720/C900 or The Canon Image Press c6000/7000 would fit in this space. Both have their advantages and are worth exploring interestingly there seems to be more about the Canon's here then the C900... Please be sure the share which way you go...

 

[LodAssoc]

Thanks for all the input. We are going to demo a KM 6501, and th C65hc to day. We'll see what happens. I'm not sure if the quality will be good for us, but the finishing options are pretty awesome. I'm also going to see when that new KM 8000 is being released, that may be a good one to look at.

We are also going to demo the Canon 6000/7000VP, The Xerox 5/7/8000APs, as well as get info on the new Xerox 800/1000.

I don't know anything about Ricoh, but I guess it's worth a look.

I think we may check ok the Nexpress M700 as well.

We have options, and I'll update this thread as we learn more.

Xerox, is finally trying to make this right. They aren't going to get many more chances. National engineers are coming out next week...

 

[Craig]

FYI the Kodak M700 is the same box and the Canon 7000VP, and the C65hc would be more for photo prints with the HC toners, I would assume the operating costs would reflect that.

 

[LodAssoc]

Shopping Update

Shopping Update

Ok, we demoed the KM6501 and the C65hc. I have to say we were pleasantly suprised. The 6501 compares better to the Xerox DC5000 then the 7002 that I'm currently running.
The KM is a hair faster than the 5000, but about half the speed of my 7002. IOt runs about 7 auto-duplexed, 100# Cover, 19x12.5" sheets; compared to the 18-20 18 sheet/min I get on the 7002. The basic specs pretty much match the 5000, in termw os stock weights and sizes. The feeder tray on the KM are much more sophisticated that the 5000. The print quality and color are far beyond what I was expecting. It look fantastic! We ran a very critical file that I have. The first set off using base settings looked a little washed out, however we then out the gloss setting on and it looked exactly like the 7002, even a bit better.

The real killer is the speed. If it weren't for that.... But, cost wise, we could put 2 of them in with finisher accesories for less than the cost of one 7002. Amazing!!!

I got some info on the new 8000. It will be at On Demand in Philly! Go check it out! I know I am!!

Xerox, is trying to make things right. They are really reaching now. Since we are in contract I can;t really do anything until they say they can't fix it. Even if they do, We have lost trust/faith in the service and the company!

 

[benny123]

let us know what you think of the Canon. The iR ADV 9075 is closer to the KM6501. The C7000VP is well above the KM6501. Canon VP full speed on heavy stocks.

 

[BadgerFan]

I would also check out the Ricoh Pro C720/C900. F2B registration is the best in this space of Xerox, KM, and Canon systems, not to mention that there is zero slow down in productivity with heavier substrates. Also, color is consistantly stable throughout even longer digital runs. Price point is about 1/2 of the Canon ImagePRESS 6000/7000 systems. Good luck with your search!

 

[benny123]

There is a thread here about how bad the Ricoh registration is!! I hear the Ricoh's are light production more like the X700 and canon 9075. Not in the league of the Xerox 7002 or Canon C7000VP.

 

[BadgerFan]

Hi benny123. Thread was started on 3/26/10 from a new install which sounds to simply need a service call and firmware update (http://printplanet.com/forums/digital-printing-discussion/21591-ricoh-c900-registration)...

I am a graphic arts rep at IKON and can say that the registration capabilities of the C900 are top notch for an EP, cut-sheet, production color press in this segment space. The C900 can actually go toe-to-toe and often even walk circles (in terms of productivity and color stability) around the Canon C7000VP or Xerox 7002; all three are positioned above the X700 or Canon imageADVANCE 9075. Most important for many of my customers is the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) equation of the Ricoh C900. Its low price point (well under other platforms in this space) and high levels of productivity and reliability (average prints between service calls) allow for more profitability and quicker job turns times.

I would encourage you to reach out to your local IKON GAR (Graphic Arts Rep) or PSS (Production Systems Specialist) so that he/she can at least give you a live overview on the technology. I think that you will be impressed with what you see! Good luck again with your search!