What type of binding is this? Please see Image

wojo

Member
Hello,

What type of binding system does the image show? There are notes on the image. It's a 6 part carbonless 16# form, with a 1/2" perforated tab. It seems as though the tab has padding glue applied through the holes in the tab...?? Based on where they adhere to each other.

As you may discern from my question, I'm new at this and learning.

Is there a single piece of equipment that does this? I'll be digital printing sheets and binding/finishing after stacked. I was going to manually jog/bind/glue the carbonless form. However, if there is equipment or a device that can pierce & glue a tab as is done in this image, I'd like to investigate.

Thank you!
 

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Stickman42

Well-known member
I would think this was done on some type of forms press. For short digital runs, are you aware of the carbonless paper with a 1/2" perf strip?
 

old guy

Well-known member
that is a form that was run on a web press, roll to roll. then collated, glued and cut on a rotary collater. we used to call it snapset. ncr has a precollated sheet called laser snap but dosent have the holes.
 

keith1

Well-known member
Old Guy has it right. Yes it was used for snap-sets with carbon between the sheets. The rolls were loaded onto the rotary collator, with carbon and tipped (glued). Haven't seen carbon sets for awhile but I expect there may still be some around. NCR pretty much sucks when you get to 6 parts. Carbon 6 part wasn't that great either come to think of it.
Since you're printing digitally it obviously isn't a long run. The holes are unnecessary. They came as part of the collating process. The 1/2" tab is unnecessary too, unless the customer specifically wants it. Pre-perfed sheets are usually only used when the forms are booked. It gives a binding edge for stitching.
 

Stickman42

Well-known member
The 1/2" tab is unnecessary too, unless the customer specifically wants it. Pre-perfed sheets are usually only used when the forms are booked. It gives a binding edge for stitching.

Agreed, but with the 1/2" perf sets you can also remove one of the inner sheets without peeling off the ones above it first, as you would have to do with a normal NCR set.
 

Marc.Ram

Active member
Hello,

What type of binding system does the image show? There are notes on the image. It's a 6 part carbonless 16# form, with a 1/2" perforated tab. It seems as though the tab has padding glue applied through the holes in the tab...?? Based on where they adhere to each other.

As you may discern from my question, I'm new at this and learning.

Is there a single piece of equipment that does this? I'll be digital printing sheets and binding/finishing after stacked. I was going to manually jog/bind/glue the carbonless form. However, if there is equipment or a device that can pierce & glue a tab as is done in this image, I'd like to investigate.

Thank you!

So if you are going to do this digitally, you wont need/can't easily get the tractor feed holes. These are not normally required unless your customer is filling the forms info on an old DotMatrix printer.

You can buy Carbonless paper (e.g. NCR) and collate the sheets then print them in your Laser printer. Then you need a very "sophisticated" piece of equipment called a Paddy Wagon (originally created by Challenge, see image below) to stack your printed pieces and use Fanapart Glue applied with a large brush. This will create your snapsets. It takes about an hour to dry if memory serves. You can then magically fan apart the snapsets into separate sets of 6 pages each.

Marc

Click image for larger version  Name:	challenge-paddywagon_10848590.jpg Views:	1 Size:	19.7 KB ID:	268371
 

davarino

Well-known member
Additional information:

If you DO need the pin-feed holes, there are plenty of business forms trade houses that can produce this job.

If your customer IS feeding the forms through an old-style dot matrix printer, using the pinholes to help guide/pull the forms through, you will want to ask for "continuous forms" or "computer forms".

Good luck. I figure this kind of work will be pretty much extinct in the next 10 years. If your customer is using a dot matrix for final imaging you might think about what their options are and will be... dot matrix computer printers seem to be falling out of use quickly, and once they break down they won't be easily replaced.
 

wojo

Member
that is a form that was run on a web press, roll to roll. then collated, glued and cut on a rotary collater. we used to call it snapset. ncr has a precollated sheet called laser snap but dosent have the holes.

Thank you!!!
 

wojo

Member
Agreed, but with the 1/2" perf sets you can also remove one of the inner sheets without peeling off the ones above it first, as you would have to do with a normal NCR set.

This is a really good point, and need to get clear with the customer about the need for removing internal sheets our of sequence, or if they are always removed in sequence.
 

wojo

Member
So if you are going to do this digitally, you wont need/can't easily get the tractor feed holes. These are not normally required unless your customer is filling the forms info on an old DotMatrix printer.

You can buy Carbonless paper (e.g. NCR) and collate the sheets then print them in your Laser printer. Then you need a very "sophisticated" piece of equipment called a Paddy Wagon (originally created by Challenge, see image below) to stack your printed pieces and use Fanapart Glue applied with a large brush. This will create your snapsets. It takes about an hour to dry if memory serves. You can then magically fan apart the snapsets into separate sets of 6 pages each.

Marc


Marc, thank you for this. I've gotten a smaller version of this to do some small batch testing... I was wondering if there is a way to automate the gluing process if I'm sheet printing and collating into a stacker.
 

wojo

Member
Old Guy has it right. Yes it was used for snap-sets with carbon between the sheets. The rolls were loaded onto the rotary collator, with carbon and tipped (glued). Haven't seen carbon sets for awhile but I expect there may still be some around. NCR pretty much sucks when you get to 6 parts. Carbon 6 part wasn't that great either come to think of it.
Since you're printing digitally it obviously isn't a long run. The holes are unnecessary. They came as part of the collating process. The 1/2" tab is unnecessary too, unless the customer specifically wants it. Pre-perfed sheets are usually only used when the forms are booked. It gives a binding edge for stitching.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It is all coming together now. At one time, there was carbon between the sheets, and the forms company is essentially still using the same equipment without the carbon sheets in between the forms sheets. Do you know if the rotary collator machine also perfed the sheets too, in addition to tipping/gluing them?

The customer doesn't like the tab, though I need to confirm if they need to take apart the form out of sequence, then it seems they will need it.

Lastly, you're right about the 6th part of the form. It doesn't work well. I've had successful tests with lighter weight paper, CFB's at ~14.5#, the issue is now finding a paper company willing to make xerographic ~14.5# paper. At one time, I thought printing was going to be the issue, but that's been resolved. I've found a couple of printers that will work well. The issue is non-approved xerographic paper voids the warranty and created a servicing issue.
 

Marc.Ram

Active member
Marc, thank you for this. I've gotten a smaller version of this to do some small batch testing... I was wondering if there is a way to automate the gluing process if I'm sheet printing and collating into a stacker.

Hi Wojo

The Fanapart glue was always applied to the edge of a stack (more than 50 sets or so) of collated sets of sheets with a large paintbrush. The paddywagon just held them together like a large pad of papers. When the glue dries it seems that the capillary action allowed it to go into the stack a bit, but somehow did not bind aggressively between the papers with the CB and CF sheets allowing the sets to be separated with a simple run of the hand/finger down the stack. This is the 'Magically' part I was referring to. Afaik there is no automatic way to accomplish this.
 

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