What would you charge for this job?

[PricelineNegotiator]

Hey, someone else came up an idea for a section of the forum so people could see what others would charge for similar jobs. Here's one job I had come across my plate I would like your opinion on:

Qty 800
84 Page Booklets
8.375 x 10.875"
80# Text Xpri Digital Gloss (12 x 18)
4:4 and Bleeds Thoughout
Spiral Bound (8 mm)

File is supplied on Friday at 6 pm and job must be packaged and ready to go at noon on Monday. Let me know what you think and what machines you will use to accomplish said job. Also normal turnaround no rush pricing.

 

[jrsc]

$5384. We would digital print it which would be no problem but we only have manual equipment for spiral binding so we wouldn't offer that time frame. We would offer them saddle stitching for $2685 or even perfect binding for $3052. Spiral is just too time consuming. This is for normal turn around which would be around that time for saddle stitch or perfect bound, just not usually over a weekend. I'm not sure what extra we would charge to do it on the weekend.

 

[davarino]

SWAG price: about $14K (retail) for over-the-weekend delivery as shown (includes overtime for workers, with no additional markups).

I question jrsc's price of $5384 + bindery... 49¢ (retail) per perfected 12x18 trimmed to (2) 8.5x11 seems low to me on a job like this, even with a normal delivery time. (Though, if it's an exception job for a steady, high volume customer it could possibly make sense.)

 

[arossetti]

We run 9 shifts a week which includes Saturday so timing wouldn't be an issue for us. This would run digital Friday evening on our iGen & Versant 2100 for a total of about 6 hours (Both profiled to GRACoL2013 and have similar toner finish so we run them interchangeably). Saturday we would run the printed sheets through our auto-puncher (JBI DocuPunch) for 7 hours. We would then be spinning coils and crimping (coil spinner and auto-crimper) as it punched. On Saturday 1 person would be running the punch and 1 person binding. On Monday morning we would have 3 people spinning and crimping till noon for a total of 12 hours of hand binding labor.

We would do all of this for $8,973. I included 100# Gloss cover sheets for the front/back cover.

 

[mferruzza]

Hi,

do any of you guys have any OCE machines that i can send some work to?

 

[AP90]

I cannot do spiral binding in house, so my pricing would be dependent on if the company I use could get the binding done over the weekend or not. But I would be right around the $4500.00 mark if they could get it done for me.

 

[LM_Ike]

We are an in-plant service and would charge $7,100. Would strongly recommend perfect bind at a cheaper cost. It would run on 2 konika machines and overtime would be incorporated into the cost. One person running copies, one person cutting and speed punching, and two people coiling and crimping.

 

[Puch]

We can't spiral that much in such a short time, as we don't have the needed machinery. I would offer perfect binding, running the 80 content pages on 150gsm and the cover on 300gsm coated. 7300 USD because of the weekend, absolute minimum 6800 USD after a heavy bargaining. Would be printed on the latest, calibrated Konicas.

 

[MailGuru]

Just an obvservation: The previous posts show a low of about $2,700, to a high of around $14,000. Mmmmm........................................... "Pick a number, any number..............."

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Just an obvservation: The previous posts show a low of about $2,700, to a high of around $14,000. Mmmmm........................................... "Pick a number, any number..............."

Hell, I came up with about $25,000. The client ended up not being able to send the files in time (a week or two from now), so we'll see how it all plays out.

 

[jrsc]

My price wasn't taking the weekend into account. We would probably have to charge double for the spiral binding trying to get enough people to work to get it down on our manual spiral equipment. It would still be tight.

If it was saddle stitched or perfect bound we would probably just bump it around 20%. We would load the presses up before we left Friday and stop in a couple times on saturday to refill. We could handle the binding monday morning or might pay 1 person to come in a few hours satuarday or sunday to bind. It would be an easy job if it wasn't for the spiral binding.

 

[kdw75]

It always surprises me how wildly the prices vary, especially on digital jobs, since everyone is paying close to the same for the machine, and click charges.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

It always surprises me how wildly the prices vary, especially on digital jobs, since everyone is paying close to the same for the machine, and click charges.

Well, what would you charge? You can't just reply and not let us know, man.

 

[arossetti]

It always surprises me how wildly the prices vary, especially on digital jobs, since everyone is paying close to the same for the machine, and click charges.

I think it is a lack of understanding for some of what their all inclusive cost is. I see a lot of people look at COGS + direct labor = cost.

 

[MailGuru]

I think it is a lack of understanding for some of what their all inclusive cost is. I see a lot of people look at COGS + direct labor = cost.

That's why I think it is useless to ask what others would charge for a particular job. Other than Cost of Goods Sold (paper, clicks, etc.) plus your direct labor (pre-press set up, laser run, bindery, etc.) the "all inclusive cost" that arossetti is referring to (we'll call it "overhead" or "OH") is your digital press lease payment, rent, electric, water, phone, internet access cost, labor benefits, business insurance, taxes, etc.) which is a large part of your costing. Now, if you're in a high-volume shop, "OH" divided by your monthly volume of pieces would yield a smaller per piece cost than someone who runs a smaller volume. Their per piece "OH" would be higher, due to a lesser volume of pieces being produced.

 

[AP90]

That's why I think it is useless to ask what others would charge for a particular job. Other than Cost of Goods Sold (paper, clicks, etc.) plus your direct labor (pre-press set up, laser run, bindery, etc.) the "all inclusive cost" that arossetti is referring to (we'll call it "overhead" or "OH") is your digital press lease payment, rent, electric, water, phone, internet access cost, labor benefits, business insurance, taxes, etc.) which is a large part of your costing. Now, if you're in a high-volume shop, "OH" divided by your monthly volume of pieces would yield a smaller per piece cost than someone who runs a smaller volume. Their per piece "OH" would be higher, due to a lesser volume of pieces being produced.

I understand what both of you guys are saying, but the whole point of finding other pricing is to help find your own pricing. Let's say for example, his Total cost with OH, COGS, and direct labor pushed him to say $12,000 before profit. If this number is higher than everyone else's, then in most cases he has an
Unsustainable business model.

You have to be able to compete with others regardless of what your total cost are. By finding out that he can not compete with anyone, then it will force him into a more sustainable business model, or he will eventually be shutting the doors. That might not be right away, but eventually he will.

Since I've jumped into printing, I'm sure we have made a few companies around us mad that we can produce a high quality product at a low price.

Learning about someone else's cost are helpful no matter what. It could also work out that you are way undercharging for a product too. But it allows you to evaluate your business model and possibly make necessary changes to help you be more competitive.

 

[buckeyewta]

We would be right around $4200 under normal production. Normal production would be 2 days with one person running the press and doing most of the cutting and binding. Printing on a Versant 80. I would try my best to get the files earlier if possible to avoid the weekend.

 

[jdiggy]

Approx 12,000.00 w/o rush charges. Those doing it for 4,xxx.00. Do you guarantee your work? What happens when you load up your machine and leave on Friday to come in on Saturday to reload and you see obvious print quality issues due to a drum going bad or a dent in a transfer belt. Who pays to replace all those prints?

 

[AP90]

Approx 12,000.00 w/o rush charges. Those doing it for 4,xxx.00. Do you guarantee your work? What happens when you load up your machine and leave on Friday to come in on Saturday to reload and you see obvious print quality issues due to a drum going bad or a dent in a transfer belt. Who pays to replace all those prints?

We guarantee our work. And if the reprint was due to a quality problem on our end, then we would be the ones to pay for the reprints. I would never make a customer pay for a reprint due to our error.

 

[LM_Ike]

We all would run this differently based on equipment on hand. That also changes price. I have a multi-punch die in my konika I can't use because I need to run oversize paper. Fortunately I have a speed punch on my floor. Others need to charge overtime some don't etc....