Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

[bgrubb7]

Looking at 2 different envelope feeders for our Quickmaster-46.

1. Astro 2000

2. Suspension Feeder's Unviversal Strate-Flo. This is the feeder that Heidelberg used to sell with the press. My only reservation is that the envelopes have to be fanned out rather than just dropped in the hopper, like the Astro.

Does anyone have any experience with either of these? Of course our Astro dealer says to stay away from the Suspension Feeder, and Vice versa from the other guys. We would probably occasionaly want to use it on our QMDI, but mostly just on the QM-46

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I installed an Astro feeder on a Heidy Printmaster about 3 months ago and they love it. I have installed many Astro 2000's over the years and they are great machines.

I have a customer that tried a Unviversal Strate-Flo for a few weeks on a 3302 and he finally settled on the Astro 2000 due to the fanning required and the ease of removing and storing of the machine.

The QMDI and the Astro I am not sure if the front apron will fit. I would highly suggest you call Astro Machine to verify all your questions about your application needs.

Regards
OG

 

[bgrubb7]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

Ya, I just got off the phone with someone at Astro. No help whatsoever. Wouldn't answer any of my questions, only gave me a list of dealers.

I told the lady that I had already been in contact with several dealers, and none of them could answer my questions. She says."well, what kind of questions do you have?"

"a few, but specifically I need to verify that it will work with my QMDI in addition to my QM46"

"well, it won't", she replied

"really", I asked, "could you explain why it won't, since the feeders on both presses are very similar?"

"sorry I can't answer anymore of your questions"

"seriously?", I asked.

"seriously"

I hung up...


So basically if anyone can tell me why a Astro 2000 won't work on a QMDI classic, you'd be the first.

Also, If anyone knows any specific disadvantages of the Universal Strate-Flo, I'd love to hear that also.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

gbrubb7

Well the Astro people are kind of dry and hard to talk to. But they make a great product.
The Astro machine mount to the front apron of the feeder and or the pile height regulation may be a factor. The height of the feeder etc. I would recommend you get your dealer to set up a 3 way conference call and ask to speak to the tech support people at Astro and get your questions answered.
The Astro is machine specific while the Universal is for any machine. It is all in the name.
For instance a QM and a Print Master have different front mounts for the Astro. I deal with so many different types of people and personalities that it blows my mind as to how rude or helping they can be. Some people and companies have an attitude but Astro is good. There are other companies I deal with that they make me puke.
Best of luck
OG

 

[Guest]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I have an older Astro feeder on a 3302 for several years, and it works great!

I just checked out the Astro web site and notice that it says:

*Quickmaster and Printmaster run in Manual mode.

That's incredible! It can only mean that they have not bother to work out the design of a speed sensor pickup for these presses. Seems very odd. It only takes a sensor and a logic board. The sensor detects the passing of individual gear teeth on some gear on the press, and the logic board does a little math to convert that to machine cycles so that the feeder can be be run at a speed equal to the press.

What is the matter with those people?

Al

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

Al,
I am sure the engineers at Astro have a good reason as to why it runs in Manual Mode. I mean you just turn a pot to tune the speed in to sync with the press.
The main board on the 2000 has jumpers and adjustment pots that are probably tuned to all the machines they make the feeder for and maybe the Hiedy runs at a weird FPM. They use a Hall Effect sensor that may not work on the QM or the PM in auto mode. Or the sucker tube timing or the Hiedys Jam sensors may be affected.
IMHO
OG ……..If it’s wet it’s real printing if it’s dry it ‘s copying
Focus on the Donut and not the hole

 

[bgrubb7]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I talked to a dealer this morning who was familiar with the situation. He says that Heidelberg has refused to work with Astro in the past to come up with a solution. Most likely this is because Heidelberg used to have an exclusive arrangement with Suspension Feeder for their envelope feeders.

There is a good price on a Astro AMC-2000 on ebay. It says its was used on a Ryobi 3202. Would it be possible to make it work on a QM-46 in manual mode?

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

Bgrubb7,
The front part of the 2000 is sometimes made to accommodate a certain press. The conveyor maybe different or the hold downs and mounts are press specific. Also the stands are different heights and on and on. Astro is usually specific to one press model that you purchase. But they work and perform great for the model you purchase it for.
Like I said the name Universal means that! It fits anything.
I have installed many Astro’s on ABDick,Ryobi,Hamada and Hiedys and they are different in the configuration of the front end.
But I am just a humble offset guy and maybe someone else could modify a feeder from EBay to work for your purpose.
Regards
OG

 

[bgrubb7]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

We missed out on the auction anyways.

One major complaint that I have heard about the Suspension Feeder, is that you have to have at least 500 envelopes loaded in the machine to set it up, and then have an extra 500 loaded in at the end of your job to push the last one through. Is this accurate?

Is this not an issue with the Astro?

 

[bgrubb7]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I just got ahold of a video of the Suspension Feeder setup. Yes, it does look like a pain. Look like it is more friendly to long runs, not short runs.

Does anyone have a video or a link of the Astro's setup or one in action?

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzsbaOTxmns&NR=1]

Astro has dual stream on this one!
Youtube is a good source for printing videos.

Regards
OG

 

[DavorS]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I also looking for suitable, good and not very expensive envelope feeder for my QM DI Classic and Astro AMC2000 seems to be my choice. I have two offers, identical prices (under 1000 Euro in Europe), used machines but different models: Astro AMC-2000E and Astro AMC-2000-5E. My decision was to buy 2000-5E but after reading this forum i am not sure what is best: first or second model. On both offers is placed that it works on Quickmaster press (in manual mode, but there i do not see problem). Only diference is that model AMC2000E in description have words "AB-DICK". Did anybody know if AMC-2000-5E will work on QM DI press? Maybe what means 2000-E or 2000-5E? Both models are stand models (black) with conveyor delivery. Thanks on any kind of help.

 

[bgrubb7]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

What does anyone know bout the Thompson (Sandco) or the Press Specialties feeders? I've heard that the Thompson feeders are junk, but no one has any specifics to share, other than to stay away from them. I know the Press Specialties has a side jog, and can run & register a second pass, which is a bonus for 3 color envelopes.

Right now the Astro is at the top of our list, with the Suspension a close second, but still I'll still take all the input I can get.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

Bgrubb7,
Your quest for the perfect envelope feeder amazes me. I have been in the Biz for over 20 years and I tend to know what machines are good, and what machines are bad or ok.
I also know and keep up on what companies are good or bad for both service and product. My specialty is small offset/digital products and Poly CTP systems.
Why not just but a Halm Jet Press and be done with your questions?

 

[Guest]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I replaced my press gear driven Press Specialties feeder (purchased new) with a used Astro purchased on E Bay. The Press Specialties feeder had replaced a Thompson.

The main problem with the Press Specialties feeder was that it required manually pulling a lever to open a leak that would shutt off the suction to stop the feeding when the press (Ryobi 3302) tripped (they may have improved this by now). Also, it borrowed suction from the press. I thought it was great at first, but this was relative to the Thompson. The manual tripping got old before too long. And I don't think the register system was as good as they claimed, although that did not affect me because the envelopes are registered again on the press feed board.

As I said in my first post, the Astro works great. BTW I feed the envelopes LANDSCAPE (9 1/2 in. gripper for # 10s) in order to beat the flap conflict at the 3302 infeed grippers after the infeed rollers. You have to know the 3302 in order to appreciate the problem and the challenges that the solution itself poses (lots of wheels on both the feeder and press feed tables).

I now use the Press Specialties feeder to drape my coat over during the work day. All reasonable offers considered.

Al

 

[Guest]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

A Halm Jet Press is more than ten times the price of any of the feeders he's been asking about. Would you be donating to his purchase of the Halm Jet ?

Al

 

[DavorS]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

bgrubb7,

as i say before i also looking for envelope feeder which can be most suitable for using on QM DI press. I check Astro, Thompson, Schneider, Stenz, StrateFlo, JustFeed and Wahli for prices (new or used), Quickmaster compatibility, technical data etc. After all ASTRO AMC 2000 is my favorite. I can not say that have all necesary informations from all types of feeders but most important to me was min/max format which feeder can handle. I think that Thompson can be also good for QM (they have T-100Q) but i eliminate them because small max. format (i print also bigger envelopes).
Most of other feeders have better performance but are more expensive (specially new machines).
I found that Astro gives highest for its price (new and used), min/max format enought for my jobs, looks simply to working on it, it not need too much space, also good is possibility of 2-up feeding but this need modification of QM press and also feeders photocell system, etc... maybe i will do it one day...).
Monday morning i will pay 965 Euro (in Europe) for AMC-2000-5E (letter E probably mean for European market 220V/50Hz, number 5 mean model for Ryobi 3302 / Itek 3985) with conveyor delivery. Seller told me that this feeder was used on AB-DICK press. Feeder will come to me for about 8 days. After this i should tell you exactly how it work on QM DI. If i must change something on press or feeder i will do it but i think that it will work without bigger troubles. I hope and belive it.
Astro 2000 model for Quickmaster is AMC-2000-14.
Useful information you can find on
http://printersparts-nc.com/envelope feeder.htm
There you can download PDF with AMC 2000 spare parts list where you can see what are differences in feeder for use on one press or another (also for QM).

Hope this will be helpfull to resolve your dileme.
Be patient and you will receive fresh information from me soon.

Davor Smokovic
Aster studio,
Croatia / Europe

 

[Hugh Brennan]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

Hi

I am a printer working in Ireland.
I have both Suspension and Astro feeders working with Heidelberg Quickmaster 46-2, and Quickmaster DI 46 Classic
In answer to your question the Astro works great on either of these presses you just have to use a bit of common sence when fitting it up. Using the manual timing is realy quite simple.
The Suspension feeder? It's sitting in a corner collecting dust since I purchased the Astro (I have 2 Astro feeders one for each machine). Want to buy it?
I also have a Halm 2 colour dedicated envelope printing machine, but find on short run work it nearly quicker to use the 46-2.
If you wish to Email me direct or telephone please feel free to do so and I will try to help.
Telephone 00353 53 9389014 (I am on GMT time)
[email protected]
Regards
Hugh

 

[bgrubb7]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

I think we've pretty much settled on the Astro. I'm confident we can make it work with our QMDI. I'll keep your email handy Hugh in case I have any questions regarding the DI.

Yes, OG, the Jet presses seem like a fine option, but we just don't have the envelope volume to justify that kind of investment. There's no such thing as too much research.

Thank guys, for all the replies.

 

[DavorS]

Re: Which envelope feeder for a Quickmaster-46?

Hi,

Astro AMC2000 is in my printroom.
With some little modifications on QM DI and Astrofeeder - this works very fine..

d.s.