Words you don't tend to hear.

[Deleted member 16349]

Words not normally used by press manufacturers in describing their own technological advances.

Radically different, breakthrough technology, paradigm shifting new science, disruptive, pioneering, visionary, revolutionary, simple, low cost, ...

I hope you get the idea. What is wrong with this picture? Where are the Apple type executives in the press manufacturing industry?

There is no excitement among press design engineers in what they do. There has been virtually no effort on their part to change the course of history. There are no "skunk works" or hot beds of innovation in press manufacturing, producing consistently new and revolutionary ideas.

What is needed are concept that don't just meet printers expectations but go past that and wow them with the kind of performance that they did not believe was possible and do that at a reasonable cost.

How can the industry give the press manufacturers a good swift a kick in the .... so they will at least aim for breakthrough goals instead of the incremental refinement that we have now and which has not lead to the kind of performance improvement needed by printers to compete.

Maybe you are happy with the press technology you have and don't want to be wowed. Any comments.

 

[RGPW17100]

We are happy with the technology we have. 2004 SM52 5 color with a coater and an Indigo 5500. Just wish we had more work to run on the machines. With this being a dead industry I dont see companies like Heidelberg dumping a lot of RandD. These companies were going pretty strong on innovative equipment till the economy shut down.

 

[Yoga]

Yes I agree..they've building upon the same thing for a long time now!

Nothing spectacular to benefit users or their customers and no descriptors such as 'simpler' 'easier' or 'cheaper' (let's not forget that one) technology...

 

[Chaos]

Where are the Apple type executives in the press manufacturing industry?

I would love to see more innovation in the industry, I just don't want to have to tell the pressman that this job runs in "classic mode" lol

 

[Yoga]

Thank you Chaos, that'll be useful for all of us here!

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Innovation

Innovation

Erik,

What innovations would you change from the present configuration of a Offset Lithographic Printing Press, that Ira Rubel and Casper Hermann would applaud.


Regards,

Alois

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Erik,

What innovations would you change from the present configuration of a Offset Lithographic Printing Press, that Ira Rubel and Casper Hermann would applaud.


Regards,

Alois

All the things necessary so the press operator does not have to make adjustments to get to colour. It just goes there quickly and stays there without high cost technology.

It is quite possible that the live members of the print community would show just as much excitment as the departed Ira Rubel and Casper Hermann would.

What do you want? To keep things the way they are now.

 

[ondemandbindery]

We are happy with the technology we have. 2004 SM52 5 color with a coater and an Indigo 5500. Just wish we had more work to run on the machines. With this being a dead industry I dont see companies like Heidelberg dumping a lot of RandD. These companies were going pretty strong on innovative equipment till the economy shut down.

Bingo.................

 

[loopyg66]

All the things necessary so the press operator does not have to make adjustments to get to colour. It just goes there quickly and stays there without high cost technology.

It is quite possible that the live members of the print community would show just as much excitment as the departed Ira Rubel and Casper Hermann would.

What do you want? To keep things the way they are now.

so......... what you are saying is that you want the press to do your job for you? then I would say, buy an ink jet printer.

and how do you suppose a press manufacturer is going to design a machine that will compensate for the 100's of different inks, solvents, fountain solutions, substrates, plates, etc around the world without high cost technology? we all know how much of a difference it makes just by using a good quality ink. some of the manufacturers are already selling their own consumables to take some of that out of the picture, but the first thing operators say is "that's just another way for them to make money by telling us to use their products".

the simpler machines are the ones that run forever and rarely break down.
the presses from 10+ years ago were well more reliable than the presses today. Why? less automation. the automation is great, but requires too much maintenance (more than any shop wants to shut down and take care of). the more electronics and software there is, the more possibilities for problems down the road.

there are presses out there that will do a pretty good job at what you asking for, but they use inline color control (densitometry equipment that is located in the press that reads every 7th sheet and controls color on the fly, and gets color extremely fast, too). some of them work very, very well. Guess what.....that technology isn't cheap and not simple.

back in day, before all of this technology, pressmen were just that....pressmen. they kept their presses in top running shape and pushed themselves to learn everything about their press and could makeready quickly and held color very well. with little, if any, technology that is out there today. too many operators (notice I said operators) today can't run a press without all the technology that is available to them. I've seen shops shut a press down because their console mounted densitometer went down and the operator had no idea how to run the press without it...............seriously? all of this technology has turned everyone into 'button pushers'. most don't know anything about the printing process and don't know how to troubleshoot problems when they arise..............and this isn't necessarily their fault.


didn't mean to get off on a rant here, but it kills me when someone asks for a machine to do their job for them. If the manufacturers could come up with what you are asking for, they wouldn't need you to run the press, and trust me.........they are working on stuff that just might do that someday. owners of printing companies would fall all over themselves to have this technology. I just hope I don't see this until after I retire.

a simple, inexpensive machine that will get and hold color by itself with no 'operator' intervention (and doesn't really need an operator)................anyone? be careful what you ask for......

 

[ronson]

In our shop this is a great problem that, new 'button pushers' have no clue what is actually happening inside press.

 

[Chaos]

Thank you Chaos, that'll be useful for all of us here!

you're welcome.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

so......... what you are saying is that you want the press to do your job for you? then I would say, buy an ink jet printer.

......

If the offset process is not made more consistent, predictable and with lower cost technology, everyone will be eventually moving to inkjet.

 

[Randy]

In our shop this is a great problem that, new 'button pushers' have no clue what is actually happening inside press.

As a pressman, I can tell you that you are not alone. Top management, all the way down to the guy sweeping the floor, have this notion that...all pressman do is "push buttons"...and make a lot of money. Without getting into the details, this is most absurd.

You all know where the console is...show us how its done! Make sure you run the press at 18,000 IPH too, because that's what the press manufacturer told us it would do before we bought it.

Randy

 

[Randy]

Words not normally used by press manufacturers in describing their own technological advances.

Radically different, breakthrough technology, paradigm shifting new science, disruptive, pioneering, visionary, revolutionary, simple, low cost, ...

I hope you get the idea. What is wrong with this picture? Where are the Apple type executives in the press manufacturing industry?

There is no excitement among press design engineers in what they do. There has been virtually no effort on their part to change the course of history. There are no "skunk works" or hot beds of innovation in press manufacturing, producing consistently new and revolutionary ideas.

What is needed are concept that don't just meet printers expectations but go past that and wow them with the kind of performance that they did not believe was possible and do that at a reasonable cost.

How can the industry give the press manufacturers a good swift a kick in the .... so they will at least aim for breakthrough goals instead of the incremental refinement that we have now and which has not lead to the kind of performance improvement needed by printers to compete.

Maybe you are happy with the press technology you have and don't want to be wowed. Any comments.

What type of press technology are you currently working with?

 

[Deleted member 16349]

What type of press technology are you currently working with?

At this time .. none. I have to add that I am an engineer and not a press operator. I can't run a press and press operators can't design a better press. Different fields.

 

[Randy]

At this time .. none. I have to add that I am an engineer and not a press operator. I can't run a press and press operators can't design a better press. Different fields.

Good point! If I ever come up with any ideas for improving existing technology, I'll be sure to keep them to myself.

Good day

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Good point! If I ever come up with any ideas for improving existing technology, I'll be sure to keep them to myself.

Good day

Yes that would be good for your own competitive advantage.

I on the other hand, I have published and already discussed publically many of my ideas. Different agenda.

 

[loopyg66]

At this time .. none. I have to add that I am an engineer and not a press operator. I can't run a press and press operators can't design a better press. Different fields.

Then how can you ask for something that you have no idea about (the printing process)?

a press isn't making 'widgets', a million of the same thing day in and day out. every job is different on a printing press. different stock, different coverage, blah blah blah. there are tons of variables in the printing process that happen throughout the day, everyday. everyone has different ways of dealing with these. some work better than others.

the customers are the ones that ask for these innovations and it's up to the engineers to develop them. the problem is is that most of the engineers working for the press manufacturers aren't printers either and take very little input from the printers until after the fact, which then tends to be too late. they tend to develop things that are over engineered in order to 'wow' the people buying the presses, but it's the operators that have to deal with them.

it sounds to me that you have some secret that you have it all figured out and you are going to revolutionize the industry. try spending a few years actually running a press and see what it's all about. and do this in several print shops doing different kinds of work under varying circumstances and then let us know what you come up with and tell us all how easy it is going to be to fix this.

printing has been around for a long long time and you don't think someone has tried this already?

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Then how can you ask for something that you have no idea about (the printing process)?

printing has been around for a long long time and you don't think someone has tried this already?

Loopy, this is very entertaining. Please keep going. I love the last idea you have that everything must have been tried already. Where do you get this insight?

 

[GazKL440]

Just let me know when you've built the press that only has a "control/print/<amt-rqd>" pad on the console so I can retire please Erik...