Xerox 700 - Which Rip to choose

[ian]

We are getting a Xerox 700 and are a little confused on which rip to choose. The embeded fiery of course is the cheaper but there are options for Creo and external fiery with colour profiler and graphic arts package.
We are a 4 colour sheetfed shop and run everthing at 200lpi or higher, our clients are designers who expect perfect quality and consistancy.

 

[Craig]

I have a Fiery and am very happy with it. I just had my Xerox Analyst stop in to run test prints with my Fiery that were giving someone with a Creo troubles. They printed just fine. I would get the external Fiery, I know it is more expensive, but you will be far happier if you are going to run VDP and color critical stuff.

That being said, if you have a comfort level with Creo then by all means go with them. I've had Fiery for the last 8 or 9 years so I am comfortable with them.

Good Luck!

 

[X33]

today, there's no longer a huge gap between Fiery and CREO servers, and Splash and FreeFlow. most people select one or other based on what their experience has been, like Craig, who has worked with Fierys 9 years and wants to stay with it.

what workflow do you currently have with your offset presses? If you have a Prinergy or Brisque workflow, you may want to stay with a CREO, but a Fiery can do it too.

The Fiery EX700 (external) has over the Fiery bustled the following (and maybe some more) :
1. More hardware : RAM, Processor, HDD; this transalates into more productivity
2. EFI Impose : imposition tools (PC based)
3. Hot Folders : to automate the printing process
4. Understands VDP languages : PS, PPML, VPS
5. Optional : EFI Profile, spectrophotometer and profiler software, highly recommended
6. Optional : Graphic Arts Package, there are some nice screening and proofing features, take a look at them, if need them, get them.

The CREO CX700, also has :
1. More hardware
2. Imposition tools (RIP based)
3. Hot Folders
4. Understands VDP languages : PS, PPML, VPS
5. Advanced Color Tools pkg : spectrophotometer and profiler software, highly recommended
6. Productivity pkg : to increase the performance of VDP applications

there are many more features on both of them, like Spot Color, Calibration tools, preflight, previews, composition, etc.

 

[Vee]

In the past I was an operator / admin for the igen3-110, we opted to just use the DocuSP. If you do choose a Fiery or Creo, you will still have the DocuSP no matter what. So why spend 50k on an extra RIP you truly don't need. DocuSP does everything the other two do.

 

[X33]

Vee,

that scenario is only on the iGen.

on the other models like the Xerox 700, the Fiery, CREO, or FreeFlow server go connected straight into the engine.

 

[Vee]

oopps. I thought they all were run the same way. My apologies.

 

[tcroteau]

The Fiery is the only RIP requiring the FreeFlow Print Server (formerly DocuSP) to pass-through on iGen3.

 

[smatros]

we run creo, but it has loads of bugs. i heard also the freeflow has plenty of problems. i would advise to wait with the purchase of the machine& rip for a couple of months!

 

[PantherMac]

Sorry to hear that. Turns out we got the FreeFlow Server (Xerox's version) w/ our model. So far it's been OK. It's a Solaris box which I love, but it's not very strong under the hood (or they should re-write their preview routines). Takes it a while to render previews on the screen, but otherwise I like it so far.
Done about 22m clicks, and we've only had 1 jam!
So far the machine is pleasing me, and seems robust. Loading the paper trays and toner carts while running is very kewl.
I've also had good luck w/ the tech guy I received during sales support and training. Dunno if that's because I'm in Rochester, or what, but dig up the eMail on the geek who helped demo the unit for you (Steve, or was it Kasey?), and bang them for some help. I contacted my person several times after-the-sale, and he's been very helpful with everything.

- Mac

 

[smatros]

Done about 22m clicks, and we've only had 1 jam!
Loading the paper trays and toner carts while running is very kewl.

What type of jobs / paper you are running?
How did you set it to load different paper trays while printing from one? Can it change tray for 1 job when it runs out of paper?

 

[PantherMac]

What type of jobs / paper you are running?

So far mostly 4/C Tabloid stuff, some B&W (machine's pretty fast once it gets cranking). Mostly 2-sided. We still have a small-format 2/C Ryobi, so longer runs of B&W Tab's are still more cost effective there. If you have to duplex, or go to process (or something more than just 1-quick pass through the press), then the Xerox starts to make more sense even at higher numbers, as there is absolutely no user intervention, once setup. Just load the trays, and empty the stacker.

How did you set it to load different paper trays while printing from one? Can it change tray for 1 job when it runs out of paper?

Yup. I just ran 2800-K 1S Tabloid sheets (press was booked doing envelopes ), consisting of a gaggle of customer supplied 8.5x11's duplexed on the RIP. Loaded up all 3-trays w/ the same stock, and it just rocked-n-rolled through all of them. I got up once or twice to re-load the trays and empty the stacker (bitched at about 1800-sheets). Oh, had to change the black-toner during the run too, but it kept going during all of that. The only thing that stopped it was the stacker (we were kinda testing it's limit anyways). At about 1800-sheets it started beeping and said "empty stacker". Took about half the sheets off, it kicked off again automatically before I could take the other half off.
So far I'm pretty happy w/ this machine. It's been performing as advertised the first month. We've got the Hi-capacity feeder coming Weds.
Thanks.

- Mac

 

[inhouse]

What are the drawbacks of the embedded Fiery?
When you quote productivity is this referring to actual time to rip the file?
If i where to purchase a 700 with the embedded rip which markets would i be excluding myself from?
Apologies if these are basic questions

 

[X33]

With the Fiery EX700 you get the following vs the Fiery Embedded :
1. Performance : based on hardware, CPU, Memory, etc.
2. Productivity : Hot Folders, Virtual Printers
3. EFI Impose : imposition tools
4. VDP : in addition to FreeForm, it can understand PPML, VIPP, etc
5. Capability to upgrade in the future : Graphic Arts pkg, Spectrophotometer (EFI Profiler), EFI Compose, Monitor/Keyboard/Station, etc.

 

[inhouse]

With the Fiery EX700 you get the following vs the Fiery Embedded :
1. Performance : based on hardware, CPU, Memory, etc.
2. Productivity : Hot Folders, Virtual Printers
3. EFI Impose : imposition tools
4. VDP : in addition to FreeForm, it can understand PPML, VIPP, etc
5. Capability to upgrade in the future : Graphic Arts pkg, Spectrophotometer (EFI Profiler), EFI Compose, Monitor/Keyboard/Station, etc.

1. what would be the timing difference on riping a 40mb pdf?

I currently run a Xerox 5252 with a 2000series Fiery external - I have not been able to find anything that the embedded internal rip on the 700 will not do that I need it to.
I am looking for a compelling argument as to why I should choose the external?
Can the rip be upgraded to an external at a later stage?

 

[X33]

I can't say a hard number of the difference in processing speed, with some files it could be the same, with others you could get 2, 5 or 10 times faster. depends on how complex the file is. the X700 embedded Fiery should definetely be faster than the DC5252's Fiery in any situation.

the embedded can't be upgraded to an external.

most people printing basic jobs, find that the embedded RIP is more than enough to meet their needs.

 

[UncleSam]

Don't use embedded Fiery

Don't use embedded Fiery

You don't want to use embedded Fiery if you want your Xerox 700 as a digital press. It is just like a regular color printer/copier if you use embedded Fiery since you can't adjust color, calibrate it to match SWOP, it's very slow to process the files. So, I don't see why you need a 70 page per minute machine if you don't have the external RIP.

Compare to CREO vs Fiery External Rip. I prefer CREO because it come with a faster CPU (3.0Ghz vs 2.16Ghz) and use the regular X-rite Eye-One vs EFI Fiery only spectrophotometer. I did a test for both RIPs, and I found out CREO is a lot faster to rip the same file. That will make a big different in production time cause we always run a lot of high quality booklets.

 

[BookPrinter]

We have a Xerox 700 with the bustled Fiery RIP, a Doc250 with the external Fiery Exp250 and two Doc250 with bustled Fiery's. The 700 performance with the bustled RIP is as good as the external Fiery EXP250 we have on our DocuColor 250, which we have been pleased with.

The ROI on an external Fiery for the 700 is not justifiable if you have an environment with multiple machines, which are not all Xerox 700's. For example, the external RIP has imposition tools and hot folders. These are nice, but they don't help with the other machine(s). An upstream workflow solution is needed to handle these items across all of the machines. More hardware (RAM, processor, HDD) translates into more productivity ...but is it enough to justify the extra cost of the external RIP ... this should be measured carefully based on the mix of jobs being run ...we couldn't come close to justifying it in our environment. The highly recommended EFI Profiler, spectrophotometer and profiler software are usable on both the bustled and external RIPs. The understanding of VDP languages could be a positive, based on the needs ... but is it enough to justify an external RIP??

... my two cents worth.