Xerox 7002 pricing revealed.

lensam69

Member
Hi all,

We're very close to buying a Canon 6000 over here (Instead of a X700). The Xerox people panicked and came out with an offer today on the brand spanking new X7002.

66 Month Lease
Machine (No extras): $ 1019.99
EX8002LG EFI Server: $1277.19

Color: .0486
B&W: .0144

It's very aggressively priced, I'll give them that much, but it's outside of our price range. For our volume (50~75K LARGE clicks a month or about 5 hours worth of work a day), I still think that the C6000 is just right

Enjoy the juicy info.
 
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You might want to take a good hard look, you have much more room for growth with the Xerox than you will with the C6000 Canon. Also take a look at the 7000VP, if you plan on running "large" prints vs 8.5x11 you will be actually running 100 to 150K (2 x's) when it comes to consumables and your maintenance items like drums, developer... all ratings are based on 8.5x11 sheet sizes.
 
Sorry if my message was confusing, 75K (Large clicks) monthly is my target volume for the *new* machine. I'm keeping my X240, so the monthly volume will be spread out on both machines. My first milestone, hopefully before 3 years will be to arrive to 100K large cliks/ month. Then I'll consider upgrading based on the technology available then.

Xerox 8003 anyone?

Anyways, that's just me ranting. The purpose of this thread was to share the pricing info on the new machines (Although I'm sure all you present xerox corporate entities already knew it).
 
Craig, even 150K is well under the recommended AMPV for the C6000 - there's plenty a room to grow with that product.

Lensam, if you have any additional questions about the imagePRESS line, I would be happy to help.
 
Well, I'm basically ready to sign, the xerox rep did try to throw some dirt on the canon yesterday; he mentioned that "the web" (I'm assuming he's referring to a cleaning web?) wears out very fast in the ImagePress machines and that it's a tech-only replaceable item. He also mentioned that the color consistency within runs is not that good (My current cannon rep said that this was addressed via software).

And the final question, Is there any particularly good thread in this forum that addresses the whole 2400x2400x1 vs 1200x1200x8 print resolution debacle? We tested our own images on both the X700 and the C6000, and while the xerox is slightly better, the canon's output is completely acceptable.
 
I'm curious to understand why you chose the Canon 6000 vs the Xerox 700; features, price, support?

About the 2400x2400x1 vs 1200x1200x8, you'll probably find a lot of math formulas and scientific data on why 2400x2400x1 is better, but at the end of the day, if the output is acceptable and sellable, who cares?
 
Disclaimer: I always refer to LARGE clicks.

We went for the canon for a couple of reasons.
Currently we own a X240 (halfway into a 5 year lease). With this machine we grew our volume from 10.000 per month on a DC12 (Yes... loooong nights printing at 4 ppm) to about 40K per month. At this point we're seeing the Xerox techs too often, and we're running into issues where we have to lower our level of quality, based on what the machine is producing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the machine, we're just working it at it's upper bound, and doing all that it can do. The techs come, they fix it (They are all very nice, knowledgeable people), and life goes on, until we have to call again 4 days later.

So obviously we need to upgrade. Xerox came in with two proposals, one for the 700, and one for the 5000.

I'd say 90% of the time we run Coated 12Pt 13 x 19, so the 700, while cheaper, could not duplex our main product. This was probably the biggest struggle we had when taking the decision. Should we continue manually duplexing, or bite the bullet and go with a higher end machine. The other was that the 700's sweet spot is 35.000 LETTER SIZE impresions per month, on plain paper, so we were concerned that we'll outgrow the machine too soon into the lease.

In the end we decided to go for broke, and look at the 5000. The price was obviously higher, but it was a faster and more reliable machine.

The things that we didn't like about the 5000 were the facts that it can't run 13" wide paper. It only goes to 12.6 with a guaranteed image area of 12". That was a big turn off for us right there, since we've centered our production around 13 x 19. Second was the fact that it uses fuser oil. Remember, the world is divided into two groups, those who love it, and those who hate it. We're in the latter group.

I looked at Konica's C6501, but didn't like the quality of the printing that much (If you're clients aren't picky, it is a *very* solid piece of equipment), Rico's 900 was out of our league.

Canon seems to be in the sweet spot for us right now. It runs 13 x 19, duplexes 300Gsm, and as stated above, it should give us the right amount of room to grow without overspending money.
We tested for lamination, and it works flawlessly (We will now start offering silk laminated products), and one thing we really liked about the machine is that it uses a side registration guide. That means that we can do a number of things that just aren't possible (I should rather say that have a lot of waste) using centerline registration. Foil stamping, die-cutting, embossing, precision folding, etc.

Those are the rational motives...
I'd like to add the irrational ones now;

Out of all the people that we dealt with (Konica, Canon, ricoh, etc) The xerox sales team were the most unprofessional, and obnoxious of the bunch. I'm not saying that this applies to everybody else. Just the particular two that we had to deal with.

Since we've had all xerox machines here for the last 10 years, they walked in thinking it was a done deal. Their attitude was not the nicest in the world, and they kept trying to hide things and generally muddle up the proposals presented.

To their credit, once they realized that they were losing the deal to canon, their attitudes changed, but still, you can't just forget about the first three months of dealings...
 
Hello To My all Good people of Print Planet.

As i was deciding to buy KM 6501 but as i used to say that in my country the KM support is useless. Luckily i came to know Xerox have started and when i gave them a call next morning then were at my office showing me a demo on the computer and showing me the different prints made with different paper. They are offering me Xerox 250 and 700. I was much impressed with 700 but before a take my decision i wanted to ask all my good friends who have been using this machine to advice or let me know about pro's and con's of this machine.

For a short brief i am a graphic designer who wants to open Print shop with limited budget.

Please suggest and advice me. Thank you in advance to all..

From
MR.Graphics Ent.
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. East Africa
 
Luckily i came to know Xerox have started and when i gave them a call next morning then were at my office showing me a demo on the computer and showing me the different prints made with different paper. They are offering me Xerox 250 and 700. I was much impressed with 700 but before a take my decision i wanted to ask all my good friends who have been using this machine to advice or let me know about pro's and con's of this machine.

Try printing the jobs you plan on paper you intend to use. We have bad experience with print quality of 700 on anything but uncoated Xerox papers.
The 250 is outdated model replaced by 252. The have f/b registration of over 2mm (1mm on 700).

It all depends on type of jobs and substrates you intend to print. Out of any machine you intend, buy a core one with offline finishing. Inline finishers are overpriced and reduce speed.
 
The Xerox people panicked and came out with an offer today on the brand spanking new X7002.

66 Month Lease
Machine (No extras): $ 1019.99
EX8002LG EFI Server: $1277.19

Color: .0486
B&W: .0144

From the pres release I found on xerox.com the list price starts at around 245.000 usd, here a basic calculation arrives at around 150.000 usd. 100.000 usd is the discount or something? Anyway, the machine pricing and click charges are at level of which we can only dream in Europe, where the cost of machine is around 50% higher while the click charges are double. :(
 
One Thing i forgot to add.

The C6000 is an air feed machine, as oposed to friction fed. That is all kinds of awesome.
 
What can you suggest me more??

What can you suggest me more??

Try printing the jobs you plan on paper you intend to use. We have bad experience with print quality of 700 on anything but uncoated Xerox papers.
The 250 is outdated model replaced by 252. The have f/b registration of over 2mm (1mm on 700).

It all depends on type of jobs and substrates you intend to print. Out of any machine you intend, buy a core one with offline finishing. Inline finishers are overpriced and reduce speed.

Thanks Smatros for you review about the machine.

I am planning to use the machine for the posters, fliers, brochures, bc, L/H, and small quantity of A4 and A5 booklets.

The material will be not of xerox but the common coated 135 / 300 gsm gloss or matt.

The price seems to be very high compared to KM6501. Xerox sales representative are going to mail me today the pricing. On my side here so far we have Xerox and KM. But KM is totally useless as i have said before. I have been trying to sort out for past 3 months and no good response. Secondly, we have Xerox who have started just for past 4 months and already got an order to deliver 2 Xerox 700 to some companies.

What can you advice me more, as i am am totally new when it comes with digital. I all knowledge for knowing which machine is better is from the help of GOOD people of PRINT PLANET otherwise there is no other source to educate me more about these things.

With best regards.
From
MR. Graphics Ent.
 
The material will be not of xerox but the common coated 135 / 300 gsm gloss or matt.

The price should not be above 50.000 € for machine + external rip + some kind of finisher.

Keep in mind that light production finisher is unsuitable for jobs on coated with high coverage, as wheel marks remain on paper surface and sometimes do not dissapear within 24 hours.

Common coated paper 134-300 gsm will provide very poor print results. There is also fuser problem which is supposed to be resolved only with new fuser generation launched in end of 2010 or 2011. Currently 1/3 of print on coated papers if color has high density has different shade (gloss).
There are several color inconsistency problems as well, especially with colors using magenta (orange tones).

Test a lot before buying, with your files and your papers. We are stuck with an overpaid 700 preforming very poorly.
 
Re: You have already scared me!!!!

Re: You have already scared me!!!!

Test a lot before buying, with your files and your papers. We are stuck with an overpaid 700 preforming very poorly.


Hello brother, i am very much impressed with you honesty about this machine. I am already scarred that if i buy then i will see the nightmares like your's. I am surprised that Xerox hasn't done all these tests before launching the machine in the market???

The other problem is that Xerox in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania they don't have the machine yet installed here, if they have to do the tests they have to go to South Africa for it.

I am once again confused, i thought after keeping aside KM i will be very happier with the Xerox but to what you have commented i am like at ZERO stage.

What about the version 252. Is that better then the 700?

Thanks buddy.

From
MR.Graphics Ent.
 
Well, the first thing you have to do, is request a Customers Expectations Document from your sales reps. The CED outlines pretty much all the details / limitations of the machine. You *HAVE* to read this before buying any digital press.

The 700 is more advanced than the 252/262.

The 700 is a good value box if you're just starting on digital. It should give you room to grow if you're starting from scratch.
 
Km6501

Km6501

KM6501 is not a competitor for 7002/8002. That machine is competing with X700, x002 series is a total different approach and expect a price up to 2.5x. Pay attention to feeders (x700 without optional feeders can feed up to 220 g/sqm from standard trays while 300 g/sqm from manual tray - poor registration).
 
Re: I am the only one....

Re: I am the only one....

Well, the first thing you have to do, is request a Customers Expectations Document from your sales reps. The CED outlines pretty much all the details / limitations of the machine. You *HAVE* to read this before buying any digital press.

The 700 is more advanced than the 252/262.

The 700 is a good value box if you're just starting on digital. It should give you room to grow if you're starting from scratch.

Hello Lensam69. I am the only one who handles everything from marketing, sales and a designing. I am a sole proprietor of my business. Once i get the machine then i have will start recruiting the staff. All is planned well so far. Bigger space, kind of staff required and me being knowing to what i need and the expectations from my client.

Please correct me if i have understood your question properly.

Did you meant CED from XEROX? I am starting from scratch i have been in designing, prepress and Printing for more then 10 years. I have opened my own small company being a freelance for past 3 years. According to the demand and growth of my customers i decided to start small printshop. I have a capacity of investing a minimum of 150K. Which i plan to include the cost of my staff and other expenses including my finishing machines.

What Smatros commented regarding the Xerox 700 does everybody face the same problem?

Because after you had mentioned that "The 700 is a good value box if you're just starting on digital. It should give you room to grow if you're starting from scratch." Does that mean i should go for this machine but what if Smatros has commented about the Xerox 700 becomes the real problem??? At a certain point i am getting confidence to get this machine and secondly if i consider Smatros comments makes me more worry.

The worst part is i can't do the test on this machine as nobody still got this machine in our conutry only 2 people have ordered and i don't think that they have made research the way i have done.

I am confused!!!!

Please i request to get more suggestions from the people of this Great Forum of the world....

Thank you.
From
MR. Graphics Ent.
 
but what if Smatros has commented about the Xerox 700 becomes the real problem??? At a certain point i am getting confidence to get this machine and secondly if i consider Smatros comments makes me more worry.

1. i only stated what experience we've got with it. Opinions are personal, but backed up with experience from several printers we know and asked them about the situation. However keep in mind that we have one of the first installations of 700 in Central Europe.

2. The machine behaves in many ways far better then it did our old DC250. Registration is better (front/back), especially if you do paper profiles and update them at least every 2nd day (for each paper stock and weight, which can take some time and several prints).

3. Machine output on average is ok if using Xerox paper - uncoated. The problems occur with coated paper (fuser as mentioned), there can be color inconsistency issues. It all depends on the how demanding clients you have and which quality level you want to achieve. By using other papers the results have been from average to poor. DC250 was better at using other stock. Tech guys from Xerox said that poor output on media not on RML is not something they would bother to resolve.

My opinion - read CED, take your substrates and test the machine. If your local Xerox wishes to sell, let them organize visit to facility where test is possible. Do not buy any unit, any brand without trying it with some common jobs of your own.

If you plan to laminate KM may preform better - we are facing lamination problems with high color coverages plenty of times.
 
What he said ^^^

Try to talk to the Xerox people to arrange for a trial period of the machine. In most cases they will agree to it. They will place the machine in your shop for a month. You have to pay for toner and supplies, but you get to test it day in- day out.
 
Hello Smatros & Lensam69.

I am very thankful to your wise suggestion. Let me ask the Xerox people if they can agree to any of the above suggested comment. But i really doubt if they will agree to this, reason the machine is not in dar e salaam, tanzania its in south africa. To do the testing will be very difficult as even if i give them my files and tell them to print on the paper i want how sure i will be that these guys will use same paper but not different.

But as you guys have advised i will do the same and get back to you with the results. They also have Xerox 5000 which is a mid production level does that have the common problems as 700?

Thank you once again guys... i will get back asap...

With best regards
from
Mr. Graphics Ent.
 
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