Xerox V280 - New 36 Month Lease

[jcuthbertson]

My shop is looking at trading in a Xerox V180 for a new V280 (I know, not much of an upgrade). Xerox corporate is offering us the following:

Versant 280 Press – 1 Tray Oversized High Capacity Feeder, Interface Decurler Module​

with All Stocks at Rated Speed, Envelope Kit, Production Ready Booklet Maker, Square Fold Trimmer,​

Inserter, 2/3 hole punch, and Fiery Standalone EX 280 Server (the higher end version), Color Profiler Suite w/ ES-3000 Spectrophotometer (no keyboard,​

monitor or stand)​

Cost will be $2471 for 36 months, w/ color clicks @ .035 and BW @ .0061 fixed

If anyone has anything to suggest I would greatly appreciate your input!

 

[SoggyWinter]

US Northwest here. Those prices are in line with what I have seen.

 

[Shawnd]

Does that include a base amount of clicks?

 

[jcuthbertson]

Does that include a base amount of clicks?

no base amount of clicks is included. what would be a reasonable amount of clicks to ask for when trying to negotiate?

 

[Ynot_UK]

Production Ready Booklet Maker, Square Fold Trimmer, Inserter, 2/3 hole punch

If anyone has anything to suggest I would greatly appreciate your input!

How much without all the finishing gear I've highlighted? Just with a basic bulk output tray/stacker.
Cost out a separate investment into offline finishing equipment, bearing in mind this sort of stuff outlives a print engine 3 or more times over. And it's not tied to one machine, so you can use it with output from any of your machines, digital or litho and with unfinished litho you've subbed.

 

[SoggyWinter]

no base amount of clicks is included. what would be a reasonable amount of clicks to ask for when trying to negotiate?

Zero. That way if the machine is inoperable or your get another and relegate this to backup role you don't have to pay clicks on an idle machine.

 

[SoggyWinter]

How much without all the finishing gear I've highlighted? Just with a basic bulk output tray/stacker.
Cost out a separate investment into offline finishing equipment, bearing in mind this sort of stuff outlives a print engine 3 or more times over. And it's not tied to one machine, so you can use it with output from any of your machines, digital or litho and with unfinished litho you've subbed.

A good offline booklet maker would cost more than those accessories and still not hole punch and not have all of the staple positions. Floor space would be a consideration too.

I'd spitball
-Production Finisher Booklet Maker $6000
-Squarefold $5000
-Inserter $1000
-Punch $200

A new offline booklet maker with air trays and squarefold should be $40,000+

 

[Ynot_UK]

A good offline booklet maker would cost more than those accessories and still not hole punch and not have all of the staple positions. Floor space would be a consideration too.

I'd spitball
-Production Finisher Booklet Maker $6000
-Squarefold $5000
-Inserter $1000
-Punch $200

A new offline booklet maker with air trays and squarefold should be $40,000+

Apples and oranges. One is a five year leasing cost, one is a long term investment for the business. One is a revenue cost on the P&L, the other is capex. Generally we find by year three (on all assets, not just P&M) the depreciation charge is less than what an ongoing lease payment would be, year two is about the same and year one predictably higher. But we buy everything outright - P&M, vehicles, property... and sweat the asset. YMMV.

 

[pippip]

Can't say I'd be a fan of inline finishing in general. Majority of our booklets would be A5 so printed two up.

Also the offline finishers are very robust units so second hand machines can be gotten that are in great shape.

 

[TJPrinter]

I’ve had my V280 for about 2 years now and keep in mind that there’s no fix for the 2nd BTR early failure due to running coated stock. The problem is heat and the coating from the stock so when you’re running all your heavier coated stock at rated speed the stock will hit the 2nd BTR a bit hotter and cause even earlier failure. Make sure you’re clear what stock you’re running and that you want spare 2nd BTR’s on the shelf.

My dealing is now suggesting that coated stock that is Indigo certified is causing the problem. I told them that Indigo certified stock does not mean it has been Indigo coated its simply stock that has be certified in one of their two certification labs for use on the Indigo. There is stock that have been coated specifically for use on the Indigo but I don’t run any of them.

FYI, after being with Xerox direct for over 10 years I switched to a dealer and took $200 a month off my lease and got the same click charges.

 

[Ynot_UK]

My dealing is now suggesting that coated stock that is Indigo certified is causing the problem. I told them that Indigo certified stock does not mean it has been Indigo coated its simply stock that has be certified in one of their two certification labs for use on the Indigo.

The only real certification is seeing your jobs on your substrates run on a machine before you commit to it.

As I've said many times, certification is driven by the Big Four's marketing departments, i.e. "Hello Mr Paper Manufacturer, if you'd like to appear on our list of recommended substrates, send a pallet to our lab for testing, raise a purchase order for a six figure 'advertising allowance' each year and commit to keeping our showrooms well stocked with free substrate... then you're certified!"

 

[kslight]

I’ve had my V280 for about 2 years now and keep in mind that there’s no fix for the 2nd BTR early failure due to running coated stock. The problem is heat and the coating from the stock so when you’re running all your heavier coated stock at rated speed the stock will hit the 2nd BTR a bit hotter and cause even earlier failure. Make sure you’re clear what stock you’re running and that you want spare 2nd BTR’s on the shelf.

My dealing is now suggesting that coated stock that is Indigo certified is causing the problem. I told them that Indigo certified stock does not mean it has been Indigo coated its simply stock that has be certified in one of their two certification labs for use on the Indigo. There is stock that have been coated specifically for use on the Indigo but I don’t run any of them.

FYI, after being with Xerox direct for over 10 years I switched to a dealer and took $200 a month off my lease and got the same click charges.

Sounds like old Xerox to me…they were always quick to blame the paper (bought the same shit everyone else does…). After wasting hours / days going back and forth, never did they find that the paper was the issue.

 

[kslight]

My shop is looking at trading in a Xerox V180 for a new V280 (I know, not much of an upgrade). Xerox corporate is offering us the following:

Versant 280 Press – 1 Tray Oversized High Capacity Feeder, Interface Decurler Module​

with All Stocks at Rated Speed, Envelope Kit, Production Ready Booklet Maker, Square Fold Trimmer,​

Inserter, 2/3 hole punch, and Fiery Standalone EX 280 Server (the higher end version), Color Profiler Suite w/ ES-3000 Spectrophotometer (no keyboard,​

monitor or stand)​

Cost will be $2471 for 36 months, w/ color clicks @ .035 and BW @ .0061 fixed

If anyone has anything to suggest I would greatly appreciate your input!

I don’t know what Xerox costs these days, but if you want to keep them honest certainly shop around to every brand. We got a Ricoh 7210x on a 60 month lease for a lot less than this, and lower fixed click rates for that term. Did add inserter and puncher, oversized sheet options, etc ….did not get the full inline booklet maker because I hate that stuff…bought a duplo offline unit instead. Been installed for a year and a half so far, love it.

 

[Shawnd]

Base question was already answered, I have done xxxx base clicks in the past and now only do pure CPC.

IMHO, the V280 is long in the tooth, Ricoh will be releasing the 7300 series soon enough, I would hold out and shop around.

 

[KopyBoss]

My shop is looking at trading in a Xerox V180 for a new V280 (I know, not much of an upgrade). Xerox corporate is offering us the following:

Versant 280 Press – 1 Tray Oversized High Capacity Feeder, Interface Decurler Module​

with All Stocks at Rated Speed, Envelope Kit, Production Ready Booklet Maker, Square Fold Trimmer,​

Inserter, 2/3 hole punch, and Fiery Standalone EX 280 Server (the higher end version), Color Profiler Suite w/ ES-3000 Spectrophotometer (no keyboard,​

monitor or stand)​

Cost will be $2471 for 36 months, w/ color clicks @ .035 and BW @ .0061 fixed

If anyone has anything to suggest I would greatly appreciate your input!

Make sure your rates are locked for the term of the lease. Color Profiler Suite is most likely only a one year free subscription and that you would have to pay for major updates after first year.

 

[gazfocus]

I go through stages where I wish I lived in the US, but then threads like this make me so grateful I don't. Here in the UK, a Versant 280 with everything you've mentioned would be around £1,000/month max (about $1,270). Honestly, for $2471 I'd definitely be shopping around, and definitely look to see if you can move some of your finishing offline - that way you won't need to keep buying new finishing modules every time you upgrade your press.

 

[azehnali]

it would be $1000 for 60 months or 36?

 

[gazfocus]

it would be $1000 for 60 months or 36?

36 months - when I bought my Konica, I had a quote for a Xerox Versant 180 with the production booklet finsher, dual high cap trays, only thing it didn't have was the square fold trimmer. The price I was quoted was £23,000. I'm actually waiting on a quote for a Versant 280 now so will post when I get it.

 

[YourCastle]

I’ve had my V280 for about 2 years now and keep in mind that there’s no fix for the 2nd BTR early failure due to running coated stock.

sorry, I'm unclear. What do you mean "no fix"? is the machine dead?

Doesn't service repair the BTR for free as part of the contract?

 

[YourCastle]

regarding booklet maker...

I love mine, however, most of the guts in our booklets do NOT have bleed, so I run the covers oversize, cut them down and use the inserter for the covers.

But some of my books have full bleed guts. I used to print, cut and then feed the hole thing through the inserter for fold, stitch, face trim... but that option has been removed from the v280. Now I have to run the entire book through the entire machine. I set my blank file to gray to reduce click charges, but it's still more money and if I get a jam, higher likelihood going from tray instead of inserter, then I lose a whole book if one sheet gets damaged.

Just FYI. I spoke to my rep and xerox doesn't care and won't provide a finisher-only option through the inserter.