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  • Varnish Over Toner

    Anybody out there running Ricoh equipment ever try to varnish after the job has been produced off of your digital?

  • #2
    I'd be interested to hear about this. Did a job last week which requested matt lam on outside cover and sealer varnish on inside.
    As i suspected it was a litho quote previously then volume lowered for digital. Talked them out of it but my supplier did say it should be a problem for their varnish on digital.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Manafaith View Post
      Anybody out there running Ricoh equipment ever try to varnish after the job has been produced off of your digital?
      Not sure this counts as varnish, but I regularly U.V. coat the output from my 9100, both gloss and satin, seems to work pretty well. This is using a Morgana Digi-Coater.
      Tom M Ricoh ProC9100

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      • #4
        for digital printouts the varnish liquid should be different grade , some times the varnish does not evenly spread out evenly on tints & for post press activities we have problem of paper cracking

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        • #5
          We have had a problem with the varnish just kind of rolling off in the past but that was on our KM Machines. Guess we will just have to do some testing off of the Ricoh

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          • #6
            pre heating the digital printouts before varnishing may get rid of the oils in the toner sometimes works

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            • #7
              Originally posted by GOPISHANKAR View Post
              pre heating the digital printouts before varnishing may get rid of the oils in the toner sometimes works
              Interesting.... I know a few years back that we would have to "burn off" some of the toner before we could UV the sheets. Might be worth a try

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              • #8
                have seen better results on digital printouts varnished after a day of printing

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                • #9
                  not sure

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tpmar View Post

                    Not sure this counts as varnish, but I regularly U.V. coat the output from my 9100, both gloss and satin, seems to work pretty well. This is using a Morgana Digi-Coater.
                    Looks like I may have spoken too soon. Was just trimming these business cards that I coated yesterday on our Digi-Coater using gloss Actega chemistry and this happened. Is this the kind of issue you were referring to Manafaith?
                    Attached Files
                    Tom M Ricoh ProC9100

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                    • #11
                      We have had that issue before with UV off of our KM Machines. I do know that each manufacturer has different coatings for different toner adhesion....at least that is what we were told. I know that we used to have really bad "chipping" issues in the past but we haven't tried any coatings since we installed the Ricoh. It kinda looks like your UV is rolling off?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Manafaith View Post
                        We have had that issue before with UV off of our KM Machines. I do know that each manufacturer has different coatings for different toner adhesion....at least that is what we were told. I know that we used to have really bad "chipping" issues in the past but we haven't tried any coatings since we installed the Ricoh. It kinda looks like your UV is rolling off?
                        Yeah that's what it's doing. I've coated a lot of post cards on 100# gloss cover with a lot less coverage than this and didn't have any issues. Sent samples to Actega, and our U.V. lamp in this machine is 9 years old so the first thing we're going to do is get a new lamp, I'll post if that helps or not. Thankfully the Ricoh toner is a lot more durable than the Indigo Electro inks so I don't think coating is going to be quite so critical.
                        Tom M Ricoh ProC9100

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                        • #13
                          At the risk of posting something commercial, the issue is fairly common with toner based printing and UV top coating. There is a lack of intercoat adhesion between the print and the coating (or varnish) due to the toner oils sitting at the surface of the print. Many of the coaters are designed to use a brief shot of IR after the coating is applied, but before they are cured, to improve this intercoat bond. Each Printer company has a slightly different toner so my company, UV Specialties, has formulated coatings specific to a print engine to achieve this adhesion without the need for IR, except in the worst of cases. Even there we need less IR and this helps keep gloss high (with gloss coatings).

                          Bottom line, if you're not using any IR, try that and see if the bond improves (but watch for gloss drops). If not, look me up and perhaps I can assist. Again, my apologies for the sales pitch.

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                          • #14
                            I can now say with certainty that it was not the lamp. Just had it replaced and the problem is exactly the same. There is another post here in the forums talking about an issue specifically with Tec Lighting coater and chemistries. I gave this (see attached) to my tech to see if I can run Tec Lighting chemistries in this Morgana Digi-Coater. That's where I'm at for now on this, hopefully it gets resolved soon.
                            Attached Files
                            Tom M Ricoh ProC9100

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                            • #15
                              Just out of curiosity, is your UV setup where it has a heat lamp the sheet first passes through and then the sheet is hit with the UV lamp station. I ask because we had this same problem different coater but what we had similar problems and found if we "cooked the sheet twice then followed with the UV curing station it resolved the problem. We actually added a second heat lamp station to finally rid of the problem.

                              If your setup is similar to what I described take the sheet after it has been coated, send it through the heat lamps (not the UV section) send the sheet through a second time then let it continue to the curing station. As I said just curious to see what result you get.

                              We run Ricoh 7110 and 651 printers btw.
                              Good luck

                              As far as using varnish no such luck on our offset pressing applying to digital press work. Results of UV are far more superior in most ppl's opinions anyways.

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