Experimenting with the offset process Ottawa area

[Deleted member 16349]

Hi All,

Any printers interested in doing process improvement experiments in offset that are located in the Ottawa Ontario ( Cornwall, Montreal, Qc) area?

I would like to find some curious, science and process oriented printers in the Cornwall, Ottawa, Montreal area that would be interested in some experiments in density control and predictability.

Thanks.

Erik

 

[BeauchampT]

Not in the area, but just curious, what sort of experimentation are you looking at?

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Not in the area, but just curious, what sort of experimentation are you looking at?

It's about a temporary installation of a device on the press that fundamentally changes the ink feed and which eliminates ink water balance density variation.

The important issue is not just to test it. It has been successfully tested. The real issue is to have the results made public.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Ottawa, Montreal, Brockville, Cornwall Folding Carton printers

Ottawa, Montreal, Brockville, Cornwall Folding Carton printers

Hi All,

Any printers interested in doing process improvement experiments in offset that are located in the Ottawa Ontario ( Cornwall, Montreal, Qc) area?

I would like to find some curious, science and process oriented printers in the Cornwall, Ottawa, Montreal area that would be interested in some experiments in density control and predictability.

Thanks.

Erik

I think especially Folding Carton printers could benefit with testing this simple and low cost technology which eliminates ink/water balance related density variation on offset presses.

Please contact me for more information if there is an interest and you are in the Ottawa, Montreal, Brockville and Cornwall areas.

Thanks. Erik

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Just an update to report on the progress of an experimental test.

The experimental technology has been designed for one unit of a Komori Lithrone S40 press located at a packaging printer here in Canada. The cost of fabricating the parts has been done.

Now the process of confirming that there are no issues to prevent testing on this press is being done before the decision to spend money on fabricating the parts.

The plan is to run it in production and the results will be made public.

Hopefully there will not be any issues that will prevent the testing. Should be interesting.

 

[Kaoticor]

Just an update to report on the progress of an experimental test.

The experimental technology has been designed for one unit of a Komori Lithrone S40 press located at a packaging printer here in Canada. The cost of fabricating the parts has been done.

Now the process of confirming that there are no issues to prevent testing on this press is being done before the decision to spend money on fabricating the parts.

The plan is to run it in production and the results will be made public.

Hopefully there will not be any issues that will prevent the testing. Should be interesting.

I would be interested in seeing the results.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

April 24th update to report the progress of an experimental test.

Milestone: Commitment to fund the fabrication of parts.

The packaging printer here in Canada has ordered the parts to be fabricated for the test on one unit of their Komori Lithrone S40 press which is running with UV inks.

The parts will take about 4 weeks to fabricate and then some weeks to assemble and install on press. The aim is to run it in production.

Again, the purpose is to make the ink feed consistent and independent of changes in water, roller train temperature and press speed. This will result in consistent print density and basically no ink water balancing. Just set the ink for print density and set water for print quality.

The technology is not a product aimed at printers directly but a patented technology aimed primarily at press manufacturers.

The next milestone will be the non production testing. Should be interesting.

 

[Al Ferrari]

Congratulations Erik. Your persistence may be bearing fruit.

Al

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Congratulations Erik. Your persistence may be bearing fruit.

Al

Al, maybe. Maybe things are going from sour grapes to sweet ones.

Just some background info. The guy who got this packaging printer interested in doing the tests, is someone I started to work with in 1984. He was there when I did the first test of this concept on press twenty years ago and he knows that the potential of the technology fits well with the needs of this packaging printer where he now works. He got the manager of the litho department interested and I am happy to say that they now have a clear understanding of the potential for their operation.

It just shows how difficult it is to get new ideas moving forward in this industry. It takes time and the right combination of conditions and people.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Good luck Erik, this industry needs more people like yourself who are not content to accept the status quo

 

[Al Ferrari]

Then sadly this is not an instance of finally convincing a new prospect. It is more like an old ally landed in the right job position and is able to help.

Indeed this just shows how difficult it is to get new ideas moving forward in this industry.

Again, my best to you,

Al

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Then sadly this is not an instance of finally convincing a new prospect. It is more like an old ally landed in the right job position and is able to help.

Indeed this just shows how difficult it is to get new ideas moving forward in this industry.

Again, my best to you,

Al

Exactly. At this point, the effort will be to get as much benefit out of the technology as possible for this packaging printer and make the results public. Success changes everything.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

June 7th experiment update.

Milestone: Fabrication of parts completed.

All the parts have been fabricated, primed and much of the pre-assembly has been done.

The assemblies will be delivered to the packaging printer in the next few weeks, where final assembly and the plan for installation will be confirmed.

Also the coordination of the engage/disengage signal from the press will be finalized by the press supplier.

So far things are going slowly but in the right direction.

 

[gordo]

Take lots of photos and post a few on this forum.

Best, gordo

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Take lots of photos and post a few on this forum.

Best, gordo

Gordon,

It won't be on this forum, since I am not allowed too.

Photos and results eventually will be somewhere else. Hopefully it gets that far.

 

[KamilT]

Hi Erik,
I read your posts for a long time. You have remarkable persistence although often heard that you are missing the point.
Cant wait to see results, I'll keep my fingers crossed

Regards, Kamil

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Hi Erik,
I read your posts for a long time. You have remarkable persistence although often heard that you are missing the point.
Cant wait to see results, I'll keep my fingers crossed

Regards, Kamil

KamilT, thanks for your comments. I can understand why many might think I am missing the point but please understand that these tests are not to see if the theory works. Tests to confirm the theory have been done a few times over the last 20 years. Knowing that something works gives one some level of confidence to go forward when others can not imagine that being possible and frankly, if I don't do it who will.

These planned tests are to see the technology work in a production situation and in production there are possibly things besides the basic new capability that can cause problems. I don't expect to see anything significant but one can not tell for sure until you run production. I too am keeping my fingers crossed. I hope I made my measurements correctly.

I was actually asked to come to this packaging printer to see if my technology would be suitable for their press. The fellow who contacted me is an old friend and was at the first test I did twenty years ago and he knows that the aim of my technology matches their printing issues. He and the litho dept. supervisor are very aware of what is being tried and why. I feel very lucky to have such good and knowledgeable support on their end.

There is a very important reason to have results made public by a third party. The reason is that this industry can not imagine anything unless it is demonstrated. That is just the way it is, so that is what has to be done. Of course, I am aiming for the press manufacturers to get interested. That is the important group in the industry for me at this time, because I am getting too old for this.

Anyhow, so far the plan is for me to deliver the assembly to the printer tomorrow and we will have a meeting with the press supplier on the signal connection details. I will let everyone know when something significant happens.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

August 2, experiment update.

The assemblies have been delivered to the packaging printer and final assembly was done just over five weeks ago. On that same day, the test unit was taken to the press and checked for fit on one press unit. Some issues were found that needed minor modifications to some parts.

In the past several weeks, those modifications were done and now we are waiting for time to check the fit in the press again.

Unfortunately, the press is very busy at this time, which is I guess a good thing, but it means that again, we must wait.

Even though this is moving very slowly, I am quite happy with the support provided at the packaging printer here in Ontario, Canada. They understand what is needed and are taking ownership of the project and a leading role. That is Gold.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

August 2, experiment update.

The assemblies have been delivered to the packaging printer and final assembly was done just over five weeks ago. On that same day, the test unit was taken to the press and checked for fit on one press unit. Some issues were found that needed minor modifications to some parts.

In the past several weeks, those modifications were done and now we are waiting for time to check the fit in the press again.

Unfortunately, the press is very busy at this time, which is I guess a good thing, but it means that again, we must wait.

Even though this is moving very slowly, I am quite happy with the support provided at the packaging printer here in Ontario, Canada. They understand what is needed and are taking ownership of the project and a leading role. That is Gold.

I wish I could provide an update that said anything important but unfortunately I am still in waiting mode. I hate waiting mode.

It is the responsibility of the packaging printer to plan the running of tests and I have no influence on that. Due to their being very busy and with problems of getting a 24v signal to activate a solenoid, the testing has been delayed for four months.

When I find out more, I will let everyone know.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I wish I could provide an update that said anything important but unfortunately I am still in waiting mode. I hate waiting mode.

It is the responsibility of the packaging printer to plan the running of tests and I have no influence on that. Due to their being very busy and with problems of getting a 24v signal to activate a solenoid, the testing has been delayed for four months.

When I find out more, I will let everyone know.

December 8th ITB experiment update.

Finally we have got to the point where the prototype has had the electrical signal from the Komori press connected and this function for the engage and disengagement of the blade has been tested and works properly. This took much too much time due to the packaging printer being busy but it has finally got to this point.

Yesterday, a test was done to look at the ink transfer function into the roller train. We found some issues with the geometry and details with the blade tip, which will be now addressed.

Previous tests on other presses in the past have been made to successfully test the science, but since this experiment is to develop the prototype so it will run in production, much more care needs to be taken to ensure its full advantage can be obtained.

The heart of the technology is actually the blade tip, so that is where refinement is required. After having to wait for quite some time to get to this point in the project, I now can get busy to address the issues in more detail. The direction is pretty well understood but of course, every change needs testing.

Again, I am very happy with the support at the packaging printer. They definitely add to the value of the project with their observations and input.

This kind of development effort really should be done at a press manufacture, but so far there has been no interest from those groups. Results hopefully will change that.