Having Major Issues with Silk and Dull Stocks Drying Properly - Please Help

[Laurav]

We are having major issues with silk and dull stocks drying properly. We have resorted to quoting them with additional varnish passes.

Has anyone found a solution?

Here are the specifics:

Stocks: Sterling, Productolith, McCoy, Delta and any other that we have tried

Inks: Toyo Hyplus EC MT LC - CMYK, Braden Sutphin spot color

Press: Ryobi 524, Ryobi 3304, Ryobi 3302

Fountain Solution: Knikken Chemistry Mark IV Fountain Solution

Dryer: Speedy Dry

For example, we ran Sterling under this criteria a week ago, and when we cut across a solid, it still edges on to the opposite side.

Help!

 

[robb]

I'll guess you are using an ink with Sta-Open in it. Sta-Open is simply another word for Drying Retarder and it has and does cause many problems. It is not easy to find anymore, but you need an ink with NO Sta-Open in it, it should skin over in the can in 8-12 hours. It will dry fast and hard on ANY stock.
StaOpen inks came on the market some years ago for pressman who are too lazy to clean out (or spray down) ink fountains, and instead
wait hours for jobs to dry. At about the same time, SpeedyDry came out and won an InterTech award. So now, many pressman are using StaOpen inks and adding SpeedyDry. Crazy. Besides, are you aware of how much SpeedyDry costs?

 

[Lukew]

Robb, your saying all stay open inks have slow drying? The ink we use only the black and yellow start to skin in the tin after 24 hours.
We have zero rub issues. Carbonizing issues.
Laurav, that fountain solution is loaded with glycols. Thats your first mistake.
Second is find a better ink.
3rd. Some silk matte stocks dry significantly better then others. Trial and pick the best.

 

[D Ink Man]

My 2 cents initially.

1) Try adding a fountain solution drier stimulator to your tank as directed. Printers Service an excellent source. An alternate fountain solution will also help. Ask Prisco again.

2) Try increasing the micron size of your spray powder to 45-50 and cut the amount back just slightly & WIND the sheets.

Your TOYO inks are not a true stay open type. They are 24-48 hours, reasonable nowadays. But if you want to absolutely stop the problem (pedal to the metal) go with Van Son Tough Tex. Problem will be gone, but you better watch your press for ink dry up.

I am sure there will be more opinions on this subject by our members, so let's see what transpires.

D Ink Man

 

[robb]

Robb, your saying all stay open inks have slow drying? The ink we use only the black and yellow start to skin in the tin after 24 hours.
We have zero rub issues. Carbonizing issues.
Laurav, that fountain solution is loaded with glycols. Thats your first mistake.
Second is find a better ink.
3rd. Some silk matte stocks dry significantly better then others. Trial and pick the best.

Lukew, yes I am saying all stay open inks have slow(er) drying-that's the whole idea, unfortunately.
I have played extensively with it, and even at .25% StaOpen in the ink(1/4 of 1%) it takes ridiculously longer for 4color process pieces to dry. Ink manufacturers routinely add 1-2% StaOpen. I went through this when silk and matte stocks became popular and had the same drying problems.

Dink Man, nice to hear from you. You know that there are few conventional type inks out there anymore, such as Tough Tex. I use Flint Novavit which is their version of Tough Tex. And you are correct, you do have to be careful and aware on press for dry up but well worth it to run an ink that I know will dry quickly and well on ANY stock....doesn't it seem silly to use an ink that needs fountain stimulator drier and SpeedyDry?

By the way, I run a press without extended dryer-for all I know this is a moot point with extended dryer.

 

[D Ink Man]

Not a fan at all of Speedy Dry ink additive.

Fountain solution drier stimulator, I am a fan as stated.

This man need technical service, that's all.

Prisco can help him and would be happy to.

Unusual for me, but I would recommend starting with the fount supplier rather than the ink man.

TOYO Hyplus is an excellent ink with what I would consider only moderate stay open properties. And besides, the service you'll get from TOYO is likely a middle man reseller who will be more interested in pizzas for the pressroom.

D Ink Man (not Dink)

 

[The G-man]

Ink on dull stock

Ink on dull stock

Hello Laurav, This indeed has been a problem for years. The Flint Novavit series has worked well for us.
We also use Varn 8168 fountain solution, this is a one step fountain solution. It has worked very well.
The thing that works the best of course is to have a aqueous coater.

 

[aqazi81]

Some stay open inks do have dryers that work only when the ink comes into contact with water. so stay open doesnt mean that these inks will dry slowly.

 

[D Ink Man]

Stay open inks are generally suicide when having problem with marking/drying on these sandpaper type stocks. Grafo and water activated drier types will be of little help if you are experiencing problems of this nature.

Van Son Tough Tex inks will solve the problem. Guaranteed.

D

 

[keith1]

Florida?! Could be that your shop is chilly from the air conditioner. If it's too cold the drying time is impeded.
I used to work in a shop here in Canada. The owner was cheap (& foolish) and would set the heat to turn off after hours. This was especially a problem on Monday mornings when the heat had been off all weekend. Lost countless hours of production time because of it. Ink wouldn't dry so we couldn't back up jobs right away. Ruined quite a few jobs. But I suppose he saved a couple bucks on the hydro bill. We also had to work the ink each morning to loosen it up enough to run.