Outsourced Binders bound the wrong side

[pippip]

Hi all,

Just printed a booklet for an artist's exhibition at a gallery and sent out for perfect binding. When I collected it they had bound on the wrong side, so the booklet was back to front inside.
There was no page numbers but the opening page was a title page with usual "Presenting" etc and the last page, which is now the front, is a bio of the art gallery itelf.
I even made sure that any pages that bleed into the spine had a 4mm space inside the cut marks for the binding to adhere cleanly.

The binders are part of a trade house so they are claiming the guillotine operater just opened the packs as they were and trimmed incorrectly and the binder operator just loaded them in as presented to them.

I didn't send a dummy copy as I honestly thought it would be impossible to get wrong between the title page and the space on spine edge.
The binders are admitting the guillotine operate should have asked the question as no page numbers or dummy.

I now have to reprint it all (as colour is critical).

Should I expect the binders to bind the reprint and all at no cost to me?
I sort of feel all their out is time and I'm down time, stock and click costs. I also had to come in over the weekend and produce x100 saddle stitched versions for opening night tonight.

Was wondering had anyone experienced similar? and of course any binders here opinions on what happened.

Thank you for all advice.

 

[gordo]

This says it all: "I didn't send a dummy copy as I honestly thought it would be impossible to get wrong"
That "dummy" is the proof as much as a color proof is used by a press operator.

 

[Stickman42]

The binder has an out in that they didn't have a dummy, and no page #'s definitely can cause a mis-step. Whether it's a bindery or some other type of vendor, for me it's come down to the relationship between us. Some will be understanding and re-do at no charge as a way of strengthening that relationship, others will charge full price a second time.

 

[kslight]

I don’t understand the trend towards designing books without page numbers, this is exactly the kind of thing that can happen. I do more saddle stitch than perfect bound books, but sometimes customers send files in single page format (ideal), sometimes in spreads…and often without page numbers. And then it’s anyone’s guess whether they sent us printer’s spreads or reader’s spreads..and I always have to kick it back to them. Please use page numbers in your books and if this is absolutely not possible for some reason, provide a sample.

The person cutting and binding likely does not have access to a computer or anything so they don’t have anything to compare to…and it may be a mistake to assume they can read your book’s language fluently at some shops as well.

 

[jwheeler]

Should I expect the binders to bind the reprint and all at no cost to me?
I sort of feel all their out is time

I agree with the others here that not sending a dummy and not having page numbers puts the ownership of the mistake on you. Have they pretty much done all of your past orders correctly? If so, then this is definitely a fluke that can be attributed to the lack of page numbers and a dummy. I do still think it's worth asking the bindery owner/manager if he could work with you on a discount for the reprint since they admitted they should have at least questioned it, and then you should be willing to take whatever he offers (even if it's nothing at all).

 

[chriscozi]

This says it all: "I didn't send a dummy copy as I honestly thought it would be impossible to get wrong"
That "dummy" is the proof as much as a color proof is used by a press operator.

Old quote: If you don't make a dummy, you is one.

 

[pippip]

Thanks for the feedback all.

Definitely will send all future orders with a dummy.

I just can't get over the incompetance, it was so blatantly obvious which was the front page that they must never have even looked, which in a way makes me think they mightn't have even checked for a dummy, obviously that would have saved my liability though.

I just can't get my head around the blindness of how the operator must work.

 

[gordo]

I just can't get my head around the blindness of how the operator must work.

This might give you a chuckle: Conservatives in chocolate bar blooper - Printweek

 

[kslight]

Thanks for the feedback all.

Definitely will send all future orders with a dummy.

I just can't get over the incompetance, it was so blatantly obvious which was the front page that they must never have even looked, which in a way makes me think they mightn't have even checked for a dummy, obviously that would have saved my liability though.

I just can't get my head around the blindness of how the operator must work.

you know how dumb the average person is? Half are dumber than that

 

[chriscozi]

you know how dumb the average person is? Half are dumber than that

Dumb implies 'lack of intelligence' and that typically is not true - lack of relevant experience is way more likely.

I like to say 'LA'. as in Low Awareness.
Most people in most circumstances are LA - some few at some few moments are HA (Highly Aware).
This way I can admit to occasionally (cough, cough) being LA and not dumb or stupid or some other perjorative.

And I would not disagree that half are LA.

 

[tngcas]

I just can't get my head around the blindness of how the operator must work.

There are a lot of people who just put their headphones in and blindly go through the motions. They aren't expected to engage their brains at all in the task at hand. Mindless actions repeated and a whole lot of "we don't accept responsibility" for the output.

It's one of the reasons it's going to be easier to switch over to robots for these kinds of tasks. At least we can live with the fact that it's a robot and doesn't have a brain to think with.

 

[pdan]

Hi all,

Just printed a booklet for an artist's exhibition at a gallery and sent out for perfect binding. When I collected it they had bound on the wrong side, so the booklet was back to front inside.
There was no page numbers but the opening page was a title page with usual "Presenting" etc and the last page, which is now the front, is a bio of the art gallery itelf.
I even made sure that any pages that bleed into the spine had a 4mm space inside the cut marks for the binding to adhere cleanly.

The binders are part of a trade house so they are claiming the guillotine operater just opened the packs as they were and trimmed incorrectly and the binder operator just loaded them in as presented to them.

I didn't send a dummy copy as I honestly thought it would be impossible to get wrong between the title page and the space on spine edge.
The binders are admitting the guillotine operate should have asked the question as no page numbers or dummy.

I now have to reprint it all (as colour is critical).

Should I expect the binders to bind the reprint and all at no cost to me?
I sort of feel all their out is time and I'm down time, stock and click costs. I also had to come in over the weekend and produce x100 saddle stitched versions for opening night tonight.

Was wondering had anyone experienced similar? and of course any binders here opinions on what happened.

Thank you for all advice.

Which side was up when this when packed shipped to the bindery?
If they had to flip it to get it wrong I'd be on your side 100%; it might have been imposed for saddle but I doubt it.