I print up to about 30,000 impressions a month. Is there any opinions for a good machine for low maintenance, off contract? I have a Konica 1060 and Ricoh 7110 that I keep maintained professionally. Is there another machine that is easier for myself to maintain or have less care required? Quality seems to be close within these classes. I've been looking at Canon c810/c910 units which are fairly inexpensive. Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.
Lower Cost Printer
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no. this is a bad strategy.
you are much better off with a service contract including parts and labour.
otherwise, every time something goes wrong, you'll have downtime, stock wastage, and your time will be spent trying to figure out complicated issues, instead of focusing on print quality, turnaround times, and generating new business.
a service contract gives you certainty, within certain parameters, of the reliability of your machine, and what your costs will be.
DIY approach will mean that every time there is a difficult to diagnose problem you'll be buying expensive parts, which might not even solve the issue, or paying an engineer to come out, potentially for days, potentially without fixing it.
the only time this might work is if you just happen to have a shit ton of empty space and can buy like 20 working used machines for next to nothing. then if one breaks you give up on it and move on to the next one. but unless you're in a developing country where labour and space are relatively cheap, that's unlikely to be much fun either.
Thanks for your advice. It's just me so the time factor is an issue. I do ask our tech a lot when there is an issue and limit my diagnose time. The cost was close, slightly less up front then on a contract when measured for a few years on the Ricoh. That is not including my time. The machines were down a lot anyways even on contract. In some cases, I would have both down at the same time with one on contract, one off. The click rates were very limiting when it came to running 8.5x11 to 13x19. It affected my workflow quite a bit.
machines will go down, it's to be expected. that's something to factor in as a contingency.
if you're doing 30k a month you should be able to negotiate a reasonable click charge. IIRC many people pay 1 click for larger sheets like SRA3 rather than double clicks.
For only 30k per month I don’t see why you’d need your current multiple machine setup. Do you intend to sell your current machines for something else?
I only have a Ricoh 7210 (on a contract) and average 75k+ per month (13x19), rarely ever down for long, see the tech maybe every couple months.
I agree I would never want to fool with one of these machines off contract, if your volume is consistent then looking at my own costs for comparison it shouldn’t be an issue for a machine to pay for itself while being under a maintenance agreement.
I only have a Ricoh 7210 (on a contract) and average 75k+ per month (13x19), rarely ever down for long, see the tech maybe every couple months.
I agree I would never want to fool with one of these machines off contract, if your volume is consistent then looking at my own costs for comparison it shouldn’t be an issue for a machine to pay for itself while being under a maintenance agreement.
namelessentity
Well-known member
Not having a maintenance agreement is such a terrible move imo. The amount of boards we've needed replaced that were in the thousands of dollars has more than paid for itself. It's one thing to do basic maintenance, but complex repairs will bury you financially off contract.
I planned on keeping them if I was to get something I am not familiar with. It is expensive, as printing is regardless. Quality of life isn't much different for me being on or off contract. I do see the wisdom in running your business and not being the technician or less hands on with printer problems. I do wonder, if there is a line or series that is less hassle and cost. Maybe it's Ricoh. Our Ricoh probably breaks down half the amount as the Konica and I run most items on the Ricoh.
I've been fortunate with that so far.
bill kahny
Well-known member
Maybe this is what your asking.
I've often wondered what type/brand printer is the least expensive over all. Put in an office printer so print quality and features are less important but I don't want to be down or stuck with a big repair cost. I know we can print to file and live in the digital world but we are selling print, shouldn't we practice what we preach and print invoices and statements still?
I've often wondered what type/brand printer is the least expensive over all. Put in an office printer so print quality and features are less important but I don't want to be down or stuck with a big repair cost. I know we can print to file and live in the digital world but we are selling print, shouldn't we practice what we preach and print invoices and statements still?
I might be autistic and too literal. I'm not entirely sure what you are saying. Print Quality with the larger boxes seem to have the same quality or close to each other. Everything costs money. I am mainly looking for some real world advice if anyone has had other experiences with Canon or something I've never owned before. I love this forum, and appreciate everyones input.
bill kahny
Well-known member
Sorry, I wasn't to clear either.
When I read your original post, I thought 2 machines on contract looking for a low volume printer off contract. Sounds like my situation for my office printer. I had a great Riso ink jet, low cost fast color, but it recently died. I am currently paying for a little canon machine for the office prints from my printer maintenance company; and paying more per click than the 2 production printers. My request to my supplier was - put in the lowest cost printer you have.
I was wondering what make and model does the industry see as the lowest total operating cost unit.
When I read your original post, I thought 2 machines on contract looking for a low volume printer off contract. Sounds like my situation for my office printer. I had a great Riso ink jet, low cost fast color, but it recently died. I am currently paying for a little canon machine for the office prints from my printer maintenance company; and paying more per click than the 2 production printers. My request to my supplier was - put in the lowest cost printer you have.
I was wondering what make and model does the industry see as the lowest total operating cost unit.
Little office printers are terrible. The best I had was a mono HP laserjet that was 15 years old and the toner was off market. Those can be on ebay or amazon. Some of the newer machines are really invasive and the quality is so low it might make us look bad to give invoices to customers.
I don't like going with providers business models for click rates and new machines. There are situations where it is probably better. After doing the math for my situation, it is a very expensive route. For big machines, buying a machine for used 15k machine, versus 60k with clicks is considerably less in cost for 30,000 impressions a month. There is a premium for having a service like that. If it didn't cost more, they probably wouldn't do it. I am thankful, the tech we have now, works on our off contract printers.
I've considered Riso plate copies but was concerned about the quality. I bet at some point inkjet will be better then toner.
I don't like going with providers business models for click rates and new machines. There are situations where it is probably better. After doing the math for my situation, it is a very expensive route. For big machines, buying a machine for used 15k machine, versus 60k with clicks is considerably less in cost for 30,000 impressions a month. There is a premium for having a service like that. If it didn't cost more, they probably wouldn't do it. I am thankful, the tech we have now, works on our off contract printers.
I've considered Riso plate copies but was concerned about the quality. I bet at some point inkjet will be better then toner.
AP90
Well-known member
Id have to disagree with you on this for the most part. I think you'd be surprised at what savings could be had by having an off lease/maintenance machine and self servicing it. The key is that you have to be knowledgable of the machine. I have 2 machines, 1 that I self service. I bought it for CHEAP as a test and you know what, it's coming up on a year and it's been a great machine. We throw as much at it as we can to increase profits and I haven't had any serious problems. Sure, I'll end up with a pricey fuser swap or developer housing eventually, but it will more than make up for it with the money I've saved on clicks. But I know these machines and can pretty much diagnose any problems that come up with it and keep it running. It also doesn't hurt that we run a lot of lightweight stocks vs. heavy stocks so thats less wear and tear on the machine as well.
That's how I came to a similar conclusion but it wasn't super cheap to purchase the machine. What machine do you have? I do run mostly coverstock, however.
AP90
Well-known member
The machine we don't have a contract on is a Versant 80.
bill kahny
Well-known member
AP90
Well-known member
It's one of those things where you just have to know the machine in order to make it "easy to maintain". I konw the common and alot of uncommon problems with Versants so when I see a problem happening I have a good idea of what to look for. But id be lost past general printer knowledge on Canons or KM's because ive never worked on them.
AP90
Well-known member
Certain jobs are easier to estimate than others. Honestly AI helps a lot with it as well. It'll give you good ideas of coverage and then you can input toner cost and use manufacturer coverage vs actual coverage and it'll spit out a pretty realistic cost. Once you do it so many times you can pretty much figure it out yourself by looking at the job and comparing it to a previous similar job that you've already estimated. But we do a lot of similar jobs and black text jobs so it's a lot easier to estimate for us.
I have a Versant 280 that has been under a service contract since I started with it. The lease is now paid off and I own it. Since I’m very familiar with common repairs I thought I might go without a service contract. I went back and totaled all the supplies that I used in the last year along with the parts that were used. To my surprise, the click rate that I was paying was less expensive than if I had to buy all the supplies and parts myself.
I’m sure this may not be the same for everyone, but it was kind of an eye opener for me. I’m staying with a service contract.
I’m sure this may not be the same for everyone, but it was kind of an eye opener for me. I’m staying with a service contract.
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