Prepress pro building designer education tool - what file errors do you see most?

[Printssistant]

Hey everyone,

I'm Benjamin, 8-year prepress professional from a family commercial print shop (20+ years collective experience). Like all of you (or maybe not), I spend way too much time fixing the same designer file issues repeatedly.

The problem isn't that designers don't care - most want to get it right, but they often lack the prepress knowledge to set up files correctly from the start. By the time we catch errors, it's revision time and deadline stress for everyone.

I'm working on an educational tool that teaches designers proper file preparation during their design process - think of it as prepress knowledge built into their workflow so files come to us ready to run.

Before I build this, I'd love input from fellow prepress professionals:

• What are the most common file setup errors you see?
• Which mistakes could be prevented with better designer education?

Here's a quick survey if you're willing to share your expertise: https://buildpad.io/research/ejCfZrV

Thanks - let's help designers get it right the first time!

 

[EdwardB]

What errors do I see most!? LOL I stopped keeping track of them... but...

Lack of proper/usable Bleeds when there needs to be
Lack of an even Border if the item does not bleed. Most digital presses can only print within (as little as) 2mm to 4mm from the edge. A good print, that does not bleed, should have equal borders all the way around.

 

[surferjeff]

Hey everyone,

I'm Benjamin, 8-year prepress professional from a family commercial print shop (20+ years collective experience). Like all of you (or maybe not), I spend way too much time fixing the same designer file issues repeatedly.

The problem isn't that designers don't care - most want to get it right, but they often lack the prepress knowledge to set up files correctly from the start. By the time we catch errors, it's revision time and deadline stress for everyone.

I'm working on an educational tool that teaches designers proper file preparation during their design process - think of it as prepress knowledge built into their workflow so files come to us ready to run.

Before I build this, I'd love input from fellow prepress professionals:

• What are the most common file setup errors you see?
• Which mistakes could be prevented with better designer education?

Here's a quick survey if you're willing to share your expertise: https://buildpad.io/research/ejCfZrV

Thanks - let's help designers get it right the first time!

Will you share the results of your survey? How?

 

[gordo]

Good luck with your initiative.
So far educating designers doesn't seem to have been very successful.
IMHO the smarts should be built into the native authoring applications - kind of like an ICC profile but for production. That way all the designer would have to do is specify the final output destination and the authoring app would make any needed adjustments to the file.

 

[Tom Peire]

You may find some interesting resources here User Guides

 

[keith1]

The problem is, many (most?) 'graphic designers' have never set foot inside a print shop and have little to no idea of what it takes to get a job onto a printing press. Or large format for that matter. (Photo)Copy shops don't count.
I can't count the number I've come across that may have taken a short Photoshop course and have come away knowing everything there is to know. If graphic design courses included even a one hour tour of a large shop it would be beneficial.
I've seen many designs that would look wonderful hanging in the National Gallery, but would never make it onto a printing press. Seen many crestfallen faces after this was pointed out to them as well, heh,heh.
If these people had even a bare bones basic knowledge of how the equipment that will produce their efforts worked, I think it would help a lot.

Side note: The general public notion of a top notch printing company is often places such as The UPS Store.

 

[chriscozi]

I'm working on an educational tool that teaches designers proper file preparation during their design process - think of it as prepress knowledge built into their workflow so files come to us ready to run.

Interesting.
An AI tool driven request for information to build an AI tool.

I see some assumptions that need addressing:
1. Designers don't have the knowledge they need to prepare files correctly so we'll fix that with AI software.
- Let's apply AI to designer ignorance of file preparation.
2. Design software doesn't work correctly now BUT we can build an option to fix the software.
- Does any body else think this is incredibly temporary and expensive? Create an idiot proof option and somebody will just be a better idiot.
3. 'Let's help designers get it right the first time'.
- LOLFD - have you EVER worked in a print shop? How often does the 'designer' or 'customer' get their facts right about their own product and you want to 'fix' their errors with AI??

And I could go on. Groucho Marx was rumored to say - never bet money on something that has people involved - the variables involved when people are a core component are far more complex and difficult to predict than in games of pure chance.

I won't argue that a good percentage of prepress issues CAN be automated. ;-)
Good luck.

 

[Printssistant]

Interesting.
An AI tool driven request for information to build an AI tool.

I see some assumptions that need addressing:
1. Designers don't have the knowledge they need to prepare files correctly so we'll fix that with AI software.
- Let's apply AI to designer ignorance of file preparation.
2. Design software doesn't work correctly now BUT we can build an option to fix the software.
- Does any body else think this is incredibly temporary and expensive? Create an idiot proof option and somebody will just be a better idiot.
3. 'Let's help designers get it right the first time'.
- LOLFD - have you EVER worked in a print shop? How often does the 'designer' or 'customer' get their facts right about their own product and you want to 'fix' their errors with AI??

And I could go on. Groucho Marx was rumored to say - never bet money on something that has people involved - the variables involved when people are a core component are far more complex and difficult to predict than in games of pure chance.

I won't argue that a good percentage of prepress issues CAN be automated. ;-)
Good luck.

If the Marx quote stands true, we might be in good shape with AI then.

The 'AI' being referred to here is actually machine learning. What is it learning? Over 30 years of combined prepress and print shop experience, ranging in capabilities from sheet fed to flatbed, round cornering to clear spot-UV. I am sure most prepress departments you know have some sort of checklist, this is hat checklist digitized and reactionary.
The designer not located in a print shop may benefit from the knowledge of knowing where to crease a simple tri-fold. The prepress department at a print shop may benefit from this tech but streamlining their proofing process and feeling more confident without the stress or tenure of someone that has been in the industry for over a decade. the sad truth is those folks are not being backfilled as much as we would like to see (I am assuming here and do not have the stats to back it up but I do know I am semi young in the industry at 37...)
This tool could help those future designers transition to the prepress role and keep shops working.

I do rarely get great artwork from a designer that has worked with printers before and it is a pleasant feeling. I would like to chase that dragon with AI software. Lol

 

[Printssistant]

The problem is, many (most?) 'graphic designers' have never set foot inside a print shop and have little to no idea of what it takes to get a job onto a printing press. Or large format for that matter. (Photo)Copy shops don't count.
I can't count the number I've come across that may have taken a short Photoshop course and have come away knowing everything there is to know. If graphic design courses included even a one hour tour of a large shop it would be beneficial.
I've seen many designs that would look wonderful hanging in the National Gallery, but would never make it onto a printing press. Seen many crestfallen faces after this was pointed out to them as well, heh,heh.
If these people had even a bare bones basic knowledge of how the equipment that will produce their efforts worked, I think it would help a lot.

Side note: The general public notion of a top notch printing company is often places such as The UPS Store.

You are not wrong about this. We promote free tours to all of our new customers and designers especially, encouraging them to bring their team out and to see all the machinery in action that they can. It can be helpful at time. I do believe, though, you could never step foot in a print shop and create printable files if given the correct steps to do so.

Thanks for the insight on the machinery itself. I may incorporate that into this entire system.

 

[Printssistant]

You may find some interesting resources here User Guides

Yep, I am definitely using their perspective to guide my thoughts for this structure.

 

[chriscozi]

You are not wrong about this. We promote free tours to all of our new customers and designers especially, encouraging them to bring their team out and to see all the machinery in action that they can. It can be helpful at time. I do believe, though, you could never step foot in a print shop and create printable files if given the correct steps to do so.

Thanks for the insight on the machinery itself. I may incorporate that into this entire system.

I have hired and trained seasoned designers in prepress departments and at least they didn't have a pre-conceived notion of the 'right' way to handle production processes.
It typically takes a year or more for them to face most of the issues they'll need to learn to deal with down the road.
You would not believe how many times I heard 'I can't believe I used to prepare my files like this.'
Or 'It really is difficult to deal with all these file issues.'
A plant tour is great - as far as it goes.

 

[keith1]

I was quite fortunate. I suppose it could be construed as fortunate. I started at the bottom, actually walking on foot to make pickups & small deliveries around the few blocks surrounding. Yeah, some would consider me old.
From there bindery, press, film, stripping, computer.
When I segued to the design or pre-press (sitting on my ass instead of on my feet all day) stage I had a pretty reasonable understanding of what a file (or masking sheet) should be so I wouldn't get flak from the press operators.
I would marvel at how people without some knowledge of press background could put working files together. Many couldn't, as we're discussing here. Gripper? What's that??
Today's software goes a long way towards helping to achieve decent files. Still, I think some knowledge of the entire production process is indispensable.

 

[MacTwidget]

I also think that part of the problem is that current designers have 95% web projects and 5% print projects. They are used to RGB, not needing bleeds, 72-dpi is acceptable. It's not that they don't care (as mentioned earlier) it is that they weren't taught. I've been in prepress for 35+ years and sometimes I am pleasantly surprised by a file coming in that needs absolutely no intervention. When that does happen, I make sure that the salesperson knows it. And the client, if possible.

 

[Glenn McDowall]

Bleeds
DeviceRGB
Content randomly positioned on a larger page size.
Getting png confused with pdf.

Can't see it getting any better in the next 30years.

 

[Glenn McDowall]

Re the GWG document "GWG_PDFX4_Workflow_EN.pdf" updated 2020.
page 20 bottom
Checking the source profiles of an InDesign document
Use the “Edit” -> “Color Settings” menu item to check what the currently assigned document color spaces are. If you don’t want to change anything, make sure to always back out of the dialog window using the “Cancel” button.

I think this is incorrect, “Edit” -> “Color Settings” is Application pref and affects only New Documents.
“Edit” -> “Assign Profile” would display the current Document Profiles.


also page 18 (setting a Source Profile Set-up)
Attention: In QuarkXPress there is no link between the document and the PDF export settings. This makes it crucial to select PDF export settings matching the document and the CMYK elements in the document.

AFAIK unless you checkbox Color Manage CMYK Sources to CMYK destinations, it will treat all CMYK as DeviceCMYK (same behaviour as InDesign CMYKsafe mode)- it will pick up the PDF Output Intent so would look different in Acrobat to Photoshop if the embedded started as something different.

then page 33 (setting an Export PDFX Profile)
If you need an output intent not immediately supported by the provided profiles, it’s easy to adjust an existing profile to your needs. Keep in mind that you can’t change the actual color of elements using these profiles; that is why it is so important that all elements of the layout are properly prepared for the intended output condition.

I'm no longer a quark Xpert but AFAIK
• Quark CAN CONVERT from embedded profile of a placed image (and I'm assuming "Source Set-Up" profile) to the Destination Profile.
• Quark CAN NOT pass an embedded RGB Profile of a placed image into a PDF.
• PDFX from quark only contains the Output Intent Profile, nothing attached to images or objects.
• CONVERSION from RGB to CMYK ALWAYS happens from Quark when PDFX with cmyk output intent destination is chosen.

 

[Stanislav Rakov]

Hey everyone,

I'm Benjamin, 8-year prepress professional from a family commercial print shop (20+ years collective experience). Like all of you (or maybe not), I spend way too much time fixing the same designer file issues repeatedly.

The problem isn't that designers don't care - most want to get it right, but they often lack the prepress knowledge to set up files correctly from the start. By the time we catch errors, it's revision time and deadline stress for everyone.

I'm working on an educational tool that teaches designers proper file preparation during their design process - think of it as prepress knowledge built into their workflow so files come to us ready to run.

Before I build this, I'd love input from fellow prepress professionals:

• What are the most common file setup errors you see?
• Which mistakes could be prevented with better designer education?

Here's a quick survey if you're willing to share your expertise: https://buildpad.io/research/ejCfZrV

Thanks - let's help designers get it right the first time!

If you have your own designers, then it's easier, but if you want to teach designers to clients, then it's an empty idea. For example, our designers submit files to prepress only through workflow, which includes basic checks, mostly lowres images, the rest can be fixed automatically.

 

[Printssistant]

Hello all! It has been a while since my initial post but I have created a set of modules and tools that I think will be helpful for those designers I was talking about. This is a work in progress and I would love some feedback from fellow industry professionals.

Printssistant.com is the website. Feel free to test stuff out and let me know what you all think. If you want full access to the site use code PREPRESS-OG for a free lifetime access. I only have 50 of those coupons so first come first served.

Thanks again for the feedback and if you have suggestions for the site, fill out the "Suggest and Idea" form on the site.

 

[w8ing4nite]

Hey everyone,

I'm Benjamin, 8-year prepress professional from a family commercial print shop (20+ years collective experience). Like all of you (or maybe not), I spend way too much time fixing the same designer file issues repeatedly.

The problem isn't that designers don't care - most want to get it right, but they often lack the prepress knowledge to set up files correctly from the start. By the time we catch errors, it's revision time and deadline stress for everyone.

I'm working on an educational tool that teaches designers proper file preparation during their design process - think of it as prepress knowledge built into their workflow so files come to us ready to run.

Before I build this, I'd love input from fellow prepress professionals:

• What are the most common file setup errors you see?
• Which mistakes could be prevented with better designer education?

Here's a quick survey if you're willing to share your expertise: https://buildpad.io/research/ejCfZrV

Thanks - let's help designers get it right the first time!

 

[w8ing4nite]

Coming from someone who started in printing when I was 12 as an elective in school, Senior vocational training and Associate in college majoring in press and prepress. Back when the files were estimated by experienced printers for paper sizes vs costs. Art sent images for filming, then stripping, then plating, then press.
What Ive noticed from art today/ vs art then, is that today, there is less building the art from scratch, and mostly what art we have is customer provided art. So almost everyone upstairs only knows how to use the premade hot folders. They dont actually do some math rather rely of the CSR's instructions. Only 2 out of 10, handle any kind of color correction.
Printing was a trade just as needed at electrician and plumbing and was an apprenticeship type job, almost always starting in the bindery. Now printing is way more specialized, less equipment, less demand. So way less experienced candidates.
My recommendation is a refresher in math, simple imposition skills (NOT HOTFOLDERS), and a decent introduction to color management as a course. Invest some time and actual education. The color management course I make people take in 1.5 hours and free online given by Canon. A math class free from any online class for measuring and fractions. And Samples of jobs I ask them to build as a test to make sure they are understanding the software.
I know this was long...you got me on a day of art related stress lol. Good luck with your adventure/endeavor!

 

[Printssistant]

Coming from someone who started in printing when I was 12 as an elective in school, Senior vocational training and Associate in college majoring in press and prepress. Back when the files were estimated by experienced printers for paper sizes vs costs. Art sent images for filming, then stripping, then plating, then press.
What Ive noticed from art today/ vs art then, is that today, there is less building the art from scratch, and mostly what art we have is customer provided art. So almost everyone upstairs only knows how to use the premade hot folders. They dont actually do some math rather rely of the CSR's instructions. Only 2 out of 10, handle any kind of color correction.
Printing was a trade just as needed at electrician and plumbing and was an apprenticeship type job, almost always starting in the bindery. Now printing is way more specialized, less equipment, less demand. So way less experienced candidates.
My recommendation is a refresher in math, simple imposition skills (NOT HOTFOLDERS), and a decent introduction to color management as a course. Invest some time and actual education. The color management course I make people take in 1.5 hours and free online given by Canon. A math class free from any online class for measuring and fractions. And Samples of jobs I ask them to build as a test to make sure they are understanding the software.
I know this was long...you got me on a day of art related stress lol. Good luck with your adventure/endeavor!

Thank you for the knowledge and insight. I learned everything about printing from my Step-Dad - whose story is similar to yours. He started working in a print shop when he was 14 years old, ran presses, managed production then did sales and now owns a shop that has been running over 20 years and is where myself and 18 other people work (4 of which are related) It is a great experience.
The education side of things is no joke. Teaching someone how to use a ruler would be beneficial...
Since my original post, I have developed some online tools that have helped me through my daily prepress workflow, although I do not have anything regarding color management yet, there are some beneficial modules to go through.
Feel free to check it out and test some features.
The tool is called Printssistant if you are interested.

Thank you again for the feedback, even at the cost of art related stress-days! lol