2013 Printing Ink Technician Description

D Ink Man

Well-known member
The knowledge and intentions of many, if not most printing ink companies in 2013 is to provide a new breed of what they want to call technical servicing for ink

They have changed their whole complete business model in what they promote and the methodologies they employ for customer technical service. I will use the example of Braden Supthin Inks, who are a prime example of this, but not the only ink suppliers that use the model. Braden once provided immediate spot on technical service 24-7-365. That is gone. Check their website, the homepage promotes the “G7 experts” as what they offer. More details on this later.

So what is it? It is a person who is GRACoL 7 certified to qualify a given series of process colors in a print operation, pre press to finished printed sheet delivery. The people that do this mostly do not know the difference between ink and Shinola. They are experts at one thing, G7 qualification. So the benefit for the ink company becomes quite apparent. Once a series of inks are qualified on press, the printer is locked into that series of inks. Governed by L*a*b values and the rheologies of the four process inks, no other ink can be run to provide a match to the proofing system. For lack of a better term, that ink series now has a monopoly on that press because of its inherent properties. Since GRACOL 7 certification is normally 5-10K expenditure, the management and owners are very reluctant to switch to another brand.

Now the ink companies have latched on to this fact, hire independent G7 experts, qualify their inks and off they go. No more true experienced immediate technical servicing after G7 qualifying. Call at 8:00 on a Friday night and try to get an ink technician. In all likelihood, isn’t happening. This is a true fleecing of printers by ill intent ink vendors. :mad:

The moral of this writing is DO NOT LET ANYONE FROM an INK COMPANY or INK MIDDLEMAN SUPPLIER qualify your presses for GRACoL 7. Get an independent to do it, who knows about Shinola, not ink. And most importantly make sure your ink supplier provides the ‘old fashioned technical service’, that was a major driver in making the print and ink industry a pinnacle of success.

D Ink Man
 
Lets go one more step.

To qualify the ink you must do the test form at least 3 or more times with different batch numbers of supposedly the same ink. You the printer can choose at what time the test will occur using ink off of your shelf. The ink company cannot bring the ink at the time of the test because they probably saved some cans back from the original batch and put new dates on the cans.
This would be a HUGE thorn in the ink manufacturers butt. They would now be responsible for batch to batch quality control. Without these kind of quality control measures all you can say is that the batch of ink that was ran for the G7 test has passed. If the consecutive batches meet the G7 specs then you have approached to controlled print manufacturing. Without subsequent testing G7 doesn't mean Shinola.
 
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Do ink vendors have specified tolerances for the hue of the inks that they deliver?

Gordo
 
Gordo,

If it is not G7, than the shades are normally dictated by the pigment or the flush colorant that is contained in the formulation. And of course these can be 'tipped' in hue by adding another small amount of complimentary pigments.

Blacks> Toner blue, alkali. Neutral black (pMS) is straight carbon and the tipping occurs with the blue for making 'process'. Other than wax or non-scratch, this toner is the most costly raw material in the black formula.

Cyan> Usually tipped with phthalo green if needed. Swings it away from a perhaps undesirable reddish shade and a greener, cleaner hue.

Magenta> You have blue shade and yellow shade magentas (actually lithol rubine Pigment Index 57:1). These can actually vary, depending on the colorant supplier. You will notice many European as well as Far Eastern shades that come over the pond in a bluish shade package. The Americas tend to run a warmer shaded magenta. This is just a noticed trend.

Yellow> Yellow is yellow, unless tipped with Diaz. or Benz. orange. This orange tipping results in a last down yellow usually that helps with critical facial tones particularly in the highlight areas. We as GOOD inkmakers can give you anything you want. I hope there's some left.

As far as GRACoL 7 there are specific shades / hue that are specified for L*a*b tolerances in order to start certification. There are also tack and body ranges that are specified in the writings. This is all governed by ISO and allows G7 to be a very efficient means of controlling color for our lithographic communities by simply running to a prescribed density. It goes beyong the old AD-76 and SWOP in providing excellent standarization and color control.

I hope that explains it a bit, Gordo. I'll get you to love me someday! :)

D Ink Man
 
@ D Ink Man - You didn't answer my question. I didn't ask about ISO, GRACoL, or G7. I asked if ink vendors have specified tolerances for the hue of the inks that they deliver?

Gordo
 
@Gordo, always trying to please here.

Yes, they do.

Good ink companies bleach their batches to an adopted standard, usually with a tolerance of +/-5%. This bleaching in a TIO2 medium shows any difference in pigment strength as well as any hue differences.

If the strength is OK, but the hue appears somewhat different they can proof the standard and the batch at the same ink volume on an applicable substrate. Than they can do one of the following:

1) Visually examine the color for appraisal without any use of extra mechanical devices. A trained, experienced technician is highly recommended for this. I know one.

2) Measurements can be made on a simple densitometer for density as well as hue error and grayness.

3) L*a*b* values, with Delta E comparisons can be made on a spectrophotometer. Depending on the tolerances, 1.00 or .50 (more critical) windows are normally acceptable.

These are what quality ink companies do.

....And truly seasoned ink veterans can take a 4 inch drawdown knife and pull down two inks against each other and know exactly the differences for color and many other properties by slab feel. Again, I know one that is adept at this.

Now that Gordo is quality. I have been employed by five ink companies.

On a scale from 1-10 (10 best), here's how I rate those companies for overall quality control or quality assurance and resulting consistency of product.

Company A) 10

Company B) 8

Company C) 7

Company D) 4

Company E) 9.5

Gordo, I trust I have now answered your questions and approached your trust and respect. If you require a first born child or something otherwise, please let me know in a seperate post. With that said, I can go all day about ink and things I know and have experience with. My generosity and willingless to share has always been one of my greatest attributes ay Print Planet.

Now, I have one question for you sir. Do you agree? YES or NO?

D Ink Man
 
My ink technician is some guy behind a desk that answers a phone. Probably looks in a color book and says "yeah that's a color alright, how much do you want?". Then he'll call another guy who probably calls another guy who gets the order in. If you have any questions about your ink the best thing to do is just don't bother asking. I still don't know why my company orders through these people.
 
My ink technician is some guy behind a desk that answers a phone. Probably looks in a color book and says "yeah that's a color alright, how much do you want?". Then he'll call another guy who probably calls another guy who gets the order in. If you have any questions about your ink the best thing to do is just don't bother asking. I still don't know why my company orders through these people.

Thank you Ajax!

Sad, but so true.

D
 
3) L*a*b* values, with Delta E comparisons can be made on a spectrophotometer. Depending on the tolerances, 1.00 or .50 (more critical) windows are normally acceptable.

Does the company you work for warrant that their inks maintain consistency within that tolerance range?

Gordo
 
@Gordo

You are always interrogative with me and never answering.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

But to continue as a good steward of our industries, no ink company will warranty their ink('s) for Delta E values. As you should know, there are way too many variables in the offset printing process to provide a warranty.

What stout ink companies can do is furnish you with a certificate of analysis for each batch. Along with that a proof, a spectro curve versus an adopted, agreed upon standard for confirmation. Than it's all yours to do with what you want.

Let me guess Gordo, before you ask another question. What happens if the Delta E doesn't match can versus COA. Got it! Call your qualified, experienced ink technician to come into your plant, boots on ground, and investigate and justify your inquiry.

Oh! But that's another story, isn't it? There's no need for ink technicians any more. Just cheap price and a 1-800 SAP number. Laughing the F... out Loud.

There Gordo, you have the complete ball of wax.

Now, can you please contribute or perhaps throw a complement sometime.

pprecite it!

D Ink Man
 
OK, I am glad I can contribute than and it is appreciated.

I too enjoy learning, but many times I am so naive on a subject, I don't know the proper question to ask. So, I just read the material, try to sepearate the real from the sublime, and hope in the end I have learned something new.

So that's OK I guess. With that said, there is no such thing as a dumb question. It is only dumb if you don't ask it. Knowing the proper question to ask and being afraid to ask a question are entirely two different things.

It's the combination of talents and knowledges that make Print Planet great. Bottom line. D
 
Lets go one more step.

To qualify the ink you must do the test form at least 3 or more times with different batch numbers of supposedly the same ink. You the printer can choose at what time the test will occur using ink off of your shelf. The ink company cannot bring the ink at the time of the test because they probably saved some cans back from the original batch and put new dates on the cans.
This would be a HUGE thorn in the ink manufacturers butt. They would now be responsible for batch to batch quality control. Without these kind of quality control measures all you can say is that the batch of ink that was ran for the G7 test has passed. If the consecutive batches meet the G7 specs then you have approached to controlled print manufacturing. Without subsequent testing G7 doesn't mean Shinola.

This is exactly what we do, test multiple forms with multiple ink batches at multiple times. Every three months we re-qualify, this helps keep our vendors honest and helps us maintain our Process Control Master Qualification.

Mike
 
Uhhhh….I am so glad I sit on the computer side of printing. Where I just "push a button" and jobs output magically correct on the plates! LOL

And I thought us pre-press guys had it rough.
 
Be careful Mr. Herndon.

Ask for a plant tour of the ink facility where your product is being manufactured.

Ask for Jimmy L. or Marc to show you, in depth. Watch for hidden land mines. They are there, don't let them hustle you through to mask.

Pay particular attention to the raw, unfinished ink sitting in the tub vessels. Hickeys waiting to happen.

Lucky you have the presses that provide the dampening relief and scrubbing action to take the a-holes away. Honest!

Mr Pat P. will approve. Trust me.

Any problems or questions, please contact me, anytime.

D
 
D ink man: A pressroom contacts you wanting one ink set that meets the following criteria for their sheetfed presses, what do you say?
Less then 3% voc
Suitable for small format & large format up to 18000sph
Suitable for 10 micron stochastic screening
Duct fresh
Laser safe
UV coat-able
Suitable for light weight paper through to synthetics
Exceeds food & pharmaceutical packaging guidelines
 
Uhhhh….I am so glad I sit on the computer side of printing. Where I just "push a button" and jobs output magically correct on the plates! LOL

And I thought us pre-press guys had it rough.

LOL, printing is a whole world of pain, or at least it can be, that's what makes it interesting.
 
Lukew, The last line is the most difficult, 'food grade'.

I would call Colorcon in Pennsylvania for that solely.

But it sounds like you would need at least 2 sets with the food inclusion.

As far as the rest, TOYO Hyplus would probably be the best to meet all the other criteria satisfactorily. Just insist on technical service, should you go this route.

D
 

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