Acrobat and Black Type color mix

[lnivin]

I'm hoping someone can explain this to me. We have a PDF with Black Type.

In Output Preview (Simulation Profile is U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2) the mix is C72 / M66 / Y67 / K78.

With the PitStop Eyedropper the mix is C92.08 / M89.47 / Y89.36 / K55.33.

In the Inspector the fill color mix is using ICC Profile Color: ISO Coated v2 (ECI) is only 100% Black.

It processes as only 100% Black.

Why?

 

[coremac]

Shot in the Black

Shot in the Black

Could you be seeing the Alternate Color Space for a spot color black? For Pantone Black U the Pitstop Eyedropper gives an Alternate Color Values of C0 M13 Y49 K98, and a Color Values of 100%.

 

[lnivin]

If it was Spot, wouldn't the PitStop Inspector label it as Spot? It's giving a CMYK mix C0 / M0 /Y0 / K100. No mention of a spot color.

 

[coremac]

Do you know what the original source file was, and how the PDF was created?

And do you need the black type to be something other than 100% K, like a rich black or overprint?

 

[lnivin]

In PitStop Inspector, if I change the ICC Profile to U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 the color stays C0 / M0 / Y0 / K100.

And the Output Preview now shows the color to be C0 / M0 / Y0 / K100.

So, the question must be linked to the ISO Coated v2 (ECI) profile.

 

[lnivin]

In the Acrobat Properties window it says Corel PDF Engine Version 15.2.0.686 / PDF version 1.5 (Acrobat 6.x).

 

[coremac]

Just to state the obvious, different Profile settings in Inspector and Output Preview will result in different values. A Photoshop 4 Default CMYK profile in Inspector will be read as C75 M68 Y67 K90 in Output Preview. If both utilities are set to the same Profile, their results will match. The PDF must have been created to embed the ISO Coated v2 (ECI) profile in the file, and the rip set to ignore embedded profiles.

 

[lnivin]

Yes, I get that part. What I don't understand is -
- Isn't ISO Coated v2 (ECI) CMYK?
- At Prinergy we do ignore embedded profiles, but we use U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2. Why would type Refine to only Black, when in Acrobat using the same profile it is 4-color black?

Just trying to understand . . .

Thank you,

 

[coremac]

My guess is that the Output Preview is doing a CMYK conversion between the two different profiles, regardless of the color space, while Prinergy is removing the ECI profile and applying the SWOP profile. I can not find the ECI profile as an option in Output Preview, so it might just be that Prinergy contains more profiles than Acrobat.

I would ask about this at https://ecentral.kodak.com/, which is reserved for Prinergy users (Proof of purchase required).

 

[lnivin]

Thank you!

 

[leonardr]

My guess is that the Output Preview is doing a CMYK conversion between the two different profiles, regardless of the color space,

Correct, because that is what is required by the PDF Standard.

while Prinergy is removing the ECI profile and applying the SWOP profile.

And that would be a HUGE VIOLATION of the standard, which is why you can't do it in Acrobat.