Acrobat X Output Preview not accurate

[capitalcolour]

So I recently found with multiple files over the course of the last few weeks Output Preview on multiple machines is not accurate.

Pitstop inspector will identify type or a black bar for example as 100% K. Opening in Illustrator yields the same result.

We like using output preview to quickly identify 4 color blacks that we will correct before output. Turning off the black channel on some files yields a mix of CMY remaining. Values in output preview indicate a rich black, preview as a rich black, yet it most certainly isn't.

Any idea why we have inaccurate previews?

 

[Duncan Hyde]

Hi i had that same issue before and i realized that if you dont refresh output preview for each pdf you open it will still have the results from the previous pdf, as far as giving incorrect readings for black or spot colors

Hope this relates somehow?

Duncan

 

[capitalcolour]

Hi i had that same issue before and i realized that if you dont refresh output preview for each pdf you open it will still have the results from the previous pdf, as far as giving incorrect readings for black or spot colors

Hope this relates somehow?

Duncan

I know exactly what you're talking about but unfortunately that's not the case here. Multiple machines, fresh program launches, inaccurate results.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Output preview/separations by default will usually show the *expected conversion* of elements, rather than what the current element build values are (such as RGB text showing up as CMYK, when at the object level it is still currently RGB).

The output preview/object inspector does show the *true, current* file values. It is not a live reading as one moves the cursor around the file, one has to click on each object to obtain a reading.

Not sure if this helps or not, I am still using v9.


Stephen Marsh

 

[capitalcolour]

Output preview/separations by default will usually show the *expected conversion* of elements, rather than what the current element build values are (such as RGB text showing up as CMYK, when at the object level it is still currently RGB).

The output preview/object inspector does show the *true, current* file values. It is not a live reading as one moves the cursor around the file, one has to click on each object to obtain a reading.

Not sure if this helps or not, I am still using v9.

Stephen Marsh

Not sure this helps in our case either... The objects we're trying to read are confirmed to be 100% K yet the inspector displays a rich black.

 

[Greg_Firestone]

Can you upload a sample file?

Greg

 

[capitalcolour]

Here are screenshots of the file in question.

The border is a grayscale tif and the text is set in indesign and is 100% black.

You can see the difference between Acrobat 8 and Acrobat X when I turn off the black separation.

 

[leonardr]

So I recently found with multiple files over the course of the last few weeks Output Preview on multiple machines is not accurate.

First and foremost, we need you to post an actual PDF file for us to be able to confirm all of your assumptions about the data in the PDF vs. the presentation in Output Preview. Screen shots are useless as we have no actual data to work with.

Second, it appears from your screen shots that the PDF is _NOT_ a PDF/X file, but instead a "regular" PDF. As such, it is even more important to see the PDF since we don't know if your CMYK data is actually "DeviceCMYK" vs. an ICC-profiled CMYK. This makes a HUGE difference when using Output Preview, since there is a possibility for color conversion due to your choice of Simulation profile.

Pitstop inspector will identify type or a black bar for example as 100% K. Opening in Illustrator yields the same result.

What does the Object Inspector in Output Preview show?? Does it show the object as DeviceCMYK or ICCBased CMYK? OR other...

 

[leonardr]

Hi i had that same issue before and i realized that if you dont refresh output preview for each pdf you open it will still have the results from the previous pdf, as far as giving incorrect readings for black or spot colors

Duncan - you are seeing this with Acrobat X???

 

[capitalcolour]

First and foremost, we need you to post an actual PDF file for us to be able to confirm all of your assumptions about the data in the PDF vs. the presentation in Output Preview. Screen shots are useless as we have no actual data to work with.

Second, it appears from your screen shots that the PDF is _NOT_ a PDF/X file, but instead a "regular" PDF. As such, it is even more important to see the PDF since we don't know if your CMYK data is actually "DeviceCMYK" vs. an ICC-profiled CMYK. This makes a HUGE difference when using Output Preview, since there is a possibility for color conversion due to your choice of Simulation profile.



What does the Object Inspector in Output Preview show?? Does it show the object as DeviceCMYK or ICCBased CMYK? OR other...

Object Inspector shows ICC Based CMYK. Why is it previewing fine in Acrobat 8 and not Acrobat X? I'll attach the file.

I should add that when the pdf is created out of indesign as a single page file, it is fine. We drop it in a hot folder to impose the file for digital and the imposed file previews incorrectly. It seems completely random... happens with supplied files as well. Again, Acrobat 8 is always correct at displaying the separations.

 

[Colorblind]

Acrobat X Pro previews separations properly here, your black text and your black frame showing as 100K only.

 

[capitalcolour]

Acrobat X Pro previews separations properly here, your black text and your black frame showing as 100K only.

Great! Now why the difference on our machines? There must be a setting somewhere affecting the reading?

 

[Greg_Firestone]

Have you tried trashing your acrobat preferences to see if that makes a difference?

~/Library/Preferences/

Greg

 

[Stephen Marsh]

capitalcolour, are you changing the "simulation profile" drop down menu at the head of the output preview window? If this is left at the original value (as setup in your colour settings, as this PDF has no output intent profile as found in a PDF/X file) - then the separation is indicated as black only. If you change the simulation profile, then one will see a rich black (as would happen in an "unconstrained" CMYK to CMYK profile conversion through an ICC PCS).

As I mentioned in my original post, separation preview can cause confusion in some cases as it can be showing the expected results of a future conversion and not the current object properties as found with object inspector.

Object Inspector reports the black frame image as "DeviceN, Black". Separations preview indicates that the black frame image is DeviceCMYK.


Stephen Marsh

 

[capitalcolour]

Thanks Stephen, Let me look into this as trashing preferences didn't help.

 

[capitalcolour]

capitalcolour, are you changing the "simulation profile" drop down menu at the head of the output preview window? If this is left at the original value (as setup in your colour settings, as this PDF has no output intent profile as found in a PDF/X file) - then the separation is indicated as black only. If you change the simulation profile, then one will see a rich black (as would happen in an "unconstrained" CMYK to CMYK profile conversion through an ICC PCS).

As I mentioned in my original post, separation preview can cause confusion in some cases as it can be showing the expected results of a future conversion and not the current object properties as found with object inspector.

Object Inspector reports the black frame image as "DeviceN, Black". Separations preview indicates that the black frame image is DeviceCMYK.


Stephen Marsh

Stephen,

Why when I open the file is Acrobat 8 does the simulation profile default to Gracol which we want but in X it is Adobe RGB which doesn't help me turn off a black separation to view possible issues? Is it the checkbox in 8 that isn't present in X about output intent overriding working space?

 

[Colorblind]

capitalcolour, there doesn't seem to be an output intent tagged in your PDF, so Acrobat is using your color settings preference to choose what simulation profile to use in Separation Preview. My default CMYK working space here is SWOP2006_Coated3v2.icc, so that's the simulation profile being used in Separation Preview. I manually changed that Separation Preview simulation profile to "US web coated" and, sure enough, your black only areas are now displayed as rich 4 col black. So if color settings are set exactly the same on all workstations, Separation Preview should use the very same CMYK simulation profile by default thus producing the same separation results.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Not sure about X (Adobe don't offer a Mac demo!) - however I can't make the v9 output preview default to an RGB space, it always defaults to my colour settings CMYK space. I can manually change the simulation profile to an RGB space, however when I close down the file and re-open it, it defaults back to my colour settings CMYK space. Perhaps Adobe has made this a "sticky" setting in X?

As Colorblind mentioned, it is probably a good idea to sync the colour settings on all computers in production.


Stephen Marsh

 

[leonardr]

Looks like the problem was identified (incorrect user settings), but I'll add a few bits.

1 - Acrobat 8 is no longer supported and has a number of issues we've addressed over the 5+ years! Stop using it .

2 - PLEASE use PDF/X files if you are working in the print industry. Anything else is unreliable (as you are seeing here first hand)!!!

3 - Yes, in Acrobat X we made the profile 'sticky' based on user request.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Looks like the problem was identified (incorrect user settings), but I'll add a few bits.

1 - Acrobat 8 is no longer supported and has a number of issues we've addressed over the 5+ years! Stop using it .

2 - PLEASE use PDF/X files if you are working in the print industry. Anything else is unreliable (as you are seeing here first hand)!!!

3 - Yes, in Acrobat X we made the profile 'sticky' based on user request.

Thanks Leonard - and Adobe will provide a Mac demo of Acrobat X or later, when?


Stephen Marsh