Adobe CC Alternative The CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X8

[David Milisock]

This is a screen grab of a file that 155.5" x 93" at 100 PPI, for the background of a trade show booth. The image is 566 MB and the CorelDraw file for design purposes is 8 pages containing one of these images on each page that well over 4GB of file contents.
Below is the original post on another forum.

I decided to try and make a mess of CorelDraw on my system so I took the aforementioned file and transferred it to my large system at my personnel office. A 566mb image with some text and vectors, duplicated 8 times to make an 8 page CorelDraw file with over 4 GB of data. I made sure the effects resolution was set to match the image and added several drop shadows to the vector elements on each page trying to stress this system.

The system is a custom ASUS MB, I7-4790 quad core 8 threads, 32 GB DDR4 1600 Crucial RAM, NVidea GTX 960 2GB ram, Samsung SSD a 2 TB Western Digital 7400 RPM drive, GB network.

Opening the 4 GB file takes 13 seconds, selecting an image and sending to Photo-PAINT, 5 seconds, returning to CorelDraw after editing in Photo-PAINT takes 8 seconds saving the file takes 45 seconds.

Cost of custom machine, under $1,400, productivity, priceless.

We do a lot of this stuff, full scale at output resolution, multipage files, the client approves we delete the crap and output the chosen one NO EDITS REQUIRED. A large Sprinter van can have 16 panels 50" wide x 90" high, when you don't have the horsepower the edits drag.

The main work on this system is high end color correction for print of some type.

The display for this system is a Trinitron CRT calibrated and operating in a 5,000 kelvin environment, neutral gray dominant coloring with all windows with heavy shades to block the light.

 

[gordo]

I think you've described one of the key strengths and one of the key weaknesses of the PC platform.

 

[David Milisock]

I think you've described one of the key strengths and one of the key weaknesses of the PC platform.

What would that be? I see RAW horsepower, I don't have to embed if I don't want to. I certainly would never attempt on any platform embedding 4GB in any Adobe application.

 

[gordo]

What would that be?

Configurability.

 

[David Milisock]

Configurability for the PC is certainly an advantage over the MAC but so is RAW horsepower per dollar.

Here's a link to an opinion piece on resourcemagazineonlune about a $4,000 PC MAC head to head test.
http://resourcemagonline.com/2016/0...owered-vs-pc-but-im-still-not-going-pc/66019/

Interestingly on their test the PC at it's worst was 26% faster then the MAC, at it's best 114% faster then the MAC. Then the author goes on say his personnel experience is out of date (disqualifying anything he has to say about the PC, then he makes remarks that he just hates Windows), then he admits the PC is faster more financially responsible.

Then he makes the most interesting statement. that his MAC is good enough. So MAC users have gone from MACs are best to now they're good enough.

Sounds like devolution to me.

 

[dabob]

David, I grew up in the Motor City and with a automotive perspective . . . its NEVER about Raw Horsepower or we would all want top fuel dragsters . . . now thats HORSEPOWER . . . all things being equal I would probably opt for a McClaren, Lotus, or a vintage Cobra . . . none has the horsepower of a dragster but they are a lot more fun to drive . . . I sit down at a windows box and just looking at the interface makes me grimace.

 

[David Milisock]

>I sit down at a windows box and just looking at the interface makes me grimace.

Exactly, for reasons that are certainly not based on logic a company owner who does not know listens to your kind of advice and productivity and profit are lost. I'm setting in a business right now that went through that until they moved all their creation to PCs.

I understand having MACs if you have a base of clients that use MACs, I would suggest augmenting your business by developing a more profitable client base.

Here is a real world scenario, 6 trailers, 53' in length wrapped. That files for 36 panels for each trailer, the best MAC adds 1 1/2 hours just to process the final approved output files. The creation process is also dreadfully slow in our experience at least 6 hours more for each trailer.

So there's 7 1/2 hours of lost labor you cannot bill for on each trailer or 45 hours on the 6 trailers. A MAC user cannot sell their wraps for any more then a PC user.

We're in business to make money not satisfy the comfort level of less productive employees.

 

[prepressdork]

In my operation, we don't design, we take what was designed and massage it to make it press ready. If we were a design shop, I might just opt for a Windows environment as I agree that Apple products are less configurable and a bit more costly...but...we are not a design shop. As I said in the other thread, I must support what my customers use and I absolutely REFUSE to take an InDesign or Illustrator file and try and copy/move/export/magic wand it's contents over to CorelDraw or any other program...in my operation, THAT's lost productivity. In addition, 98% of the files we get come from Mac users. The rest are Microsoft Office files which we tackle using a Windows 7 install via VMware Fusion.

And to answer your question from the other thread about what do we tell new people coming into the industry, if you meant designers and the like, perhaps that's a question that should be directed to the many technical schools and universities who teach graphics using Adobe apps on the Mac.

 

[David Milisock]

I agree with the work flow I would not take MAC files and place them on PC's nor for the most part native application files and change them another application. We do the latter for large physical size one or two page files on a regular basis because Adobe products are poorly suited to handle large and grand format work.

>perhaps that's a question that should be directed to the many technical schools and universities who teach graphics using Adobe apps on the Mac.

I actually posed that questions to the students in this manner. The lectures I do are keyed on core technologies, the GDI, ICC and postscript. I give those who attend a folded sealed note with those technologies listed. I ask the students to ask their professors what are the three core technologies that govern the viability of an application for professional graphics use. If the professors get it wrong I suggest that they ask for their money back. The professors always get it wrong.

I wrote a book on CorelDraw X4 color management, the process was application controlled and so convoluted that I got a call from Corel and was ask if it really was that bad, I said yes of course.

For X5 the entire process was completely changed to a document level ICC compliant process. This changed how 2.5 million users handled color management and for a very large part of the world CorelDraw is now on fire, sales are up and the output from the general users is second to no application. In the U.S. CorelDRAW sales are growing faster then the print market is shrinking. Change can be seen at the shows and the reality is that it's being forced on companies due to the economic pressures, print shops are broke and unless they change they will go away. We added design, computer and application support years ago.

Hard to beat a client that buys their computer, their graphic application and the training that goes with it all from you!

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

David, this is such a worthless discussion. Mac vs PC will be a discussion forever, I don't think you're going to convert anyone on this forum.

If you all wanted my two cents, PC's are pound-for-pound better than Macs. Windows 10 beats out macOS Sierra any second of any day.

 

[David Milisock]

David, this is such a worthless discussion. Mac vs PC will be a discussion forever, I don't think you're going to convert anyone on this forum.

If you all wanted my two cents, PC's are pound-for-pound better than Macs. Windows 10 beats out macOS Sierra any second of any day.

No it's not, this discussion is for the young people. The MAC Adobe world is part of the stagnating dying part of graphics, I know more people who used to be in print than are in print now. Look at what has happened in print the last 25 years, all the losses are MAC and now all the growth is PC. You can find isolated growth but the industry needs to change.

Todays shop has to be faster smarter and more capable, producing graphics THAT WORK in areas far more complicated then the print press environment and taking source images that are of less quality. Producing files for shirts, signs, wraps, cups and automated cutting.

Tomorrows shop has to go where we haven't thought. Look at this forum and what did I see a $115 a month MIS system, when a smart kid with a full version of MS Office can make their own, I did in 96.

 

[dabob]

David . . . I won't challenge you in your world . . . . but you can come play in my sandbox anytime and see how far a Windows box will get ya . . . .

 

[David Milisock]

David . . . I won't challenge you in your world . . . . but you can come play in my sandbox anytime and see how far a Windows box will get ya . . . .

Problem is your world is dying. Every surviving printer in my area has one significant sometimes two significant niche clients that is the base of their entire company. Have you been following RR Donnelly?

 

[AP90]

David, I would find it hard pressed that you can equate printing businesses that are growing and surviving because they are using PC's and the dying ones are using Mac's. Crazy me always thought there was more than one way to skin a cat. But it seems like in your mind that if a printing company does not switch over to PC's, they are going to die. I find that very hard to believe, and I think that there are a lot of people on here to would agree with me. I think every printer around me would agree too because when I walk in there is always a Mac sitting on a desk somewhere, and usually multiple ones. Guess they're dying and just don't know it yet?

I like the analogy dabob used about the top fuel dragsters. Why do people ever buy more than necessary. My 2002 Dodge Durango does exactly what my 2010 Camaro SS will do, but for some reason I like driving the camaro more. BTW, Im the younger generation you referenced. I prefer a Mac and love the way they perform. Ive had a few PC's, along with friends who have had them. They crash and fail way more often that my Mac ever has.

 

[dabob]

Problem is your world is dying. Every surviving printer in my area has one significant sometimes two significant niche clients that is the base of their entire company. Have you been following RR Donnelly?

David . .. I don't live in RR Donnelly's world and neither do you . . . but just one question . . . how often do you upgrade your $1400 boxes (and did that include a 5K display)?? I have upgraded once since 2007 and don't plan to upgrade again anytime in the next few years . . . . and as to the amount of "support" time on my Imac 5K Quad core = 0 not counting normal software upgrades . . . 0 configuration issues, 7 local drives = over 8 terrabytes of space . . . just wondering. Oh and I tried to replicate your "test" . . created 8 533 meg photoshop docs placed them into InDesign on 8 pages . . . did what you said you did and you know what . . . didn't take me over a couple of minutes to accomplish anything I wanted to.

Just my 2 cents . . . .

 

[Chasfinch]

hackintosh if you REALLY want bang for buck. I had a buddy with a production studio in LA made a mammoth PC witha hackintosh OS. then used to boot PC and game

 

[David Milisock]

AP90 I upgrade every 3 to 4 years because I get used to the speed and get bored and want faster, I give the old work station to another person and get myself a new one. Try working in wide and grand format for a week and you'll dump that 9 year old MAC real fast, especially when you start getting the foolishly made PSB files.

The MAC world is still around 9.XX percent of all computers, the print world has been in a 25 year tail spin nearly all those workstation losses were MAC users. In 1985 I managed a $5 million shop, in 91 I started my own company, that day 141 local printers, now there's barely a dozen. I've seen one startup shop in the last 25 years it lasted 9 months. I saw one start up brokerage it moved on to fulfillment. BTW the company I left now does promotional products, sold it's presses.

In the last 5 years I've seen 8 new graphics shops open in the area, wide format, cups mugs, signs, shirts and NONE use MACs. These 5 to 15 people shops were always the back bone of print shops and when you see them come back that's called growth.

Look at the reality, MAC world, fewer shops, fewer employees, merged, consolidated or what ever companies (I.E. less companies) old gear. That's in the very easy controlled print press or digital press environment. One local $4 million company over the last 8 years bought 6 other companies all were $3 to $6 million dollar companies themselves, now that $4 million company is $5 million dollar business.

The growth is on the PC side, not mega companies but small profitable businesses. Our people need jobs.

 

[David Milisock]

hackintosh if you REALLY want bang for buck. I had a buddy with a production studio in LA made a mammoth PC witha hackintosh OS. then used to boot PC and game

I see a lot of people with MAC Books running Windows. I'm going to copy a post from another forum, I do this because IMO PC people are the worst when it comes to being cheap. I never have issues because I'm not cheap, not always latest generation because it needs worked out but next to it.
The post was in reply to what was perceived as poor performance, (on the PC side people with get an $350 AMD laptop and expect it to perform.

See below

"Well, I've found it really does depend on your system. It's one reason when I needed a new laptop, I looked at gaming laptops. I didn't want anything too bulky (Asus I'm looking at you...my god). So I went with an Acer Nitro Black. 16GB of Ram, Windows 10, 4GB GeForce GTX960m, 1 terabyte HDD. Cost me $1400. But....totally worth it. Damn thing runs anything I throw at it, including Batman Arkham Knight with everything maxxed out (remember that one?!) So CorelDraw is NO problem.

As with a lot of things, you get what you pay for. I work in tech support and you'd be amazed at the trouble some folks have with various Wordpress plugins...and it is always due to them cheaping out on their host. Same deal. Pay $20 a month and you'll be just fine."

 

[David Milisock]

Just a little update, I have need for a high quality stationary vender so I went looking, debossing, engraving, embossing stuff like that. Not very many to be found with the skill set I require. Be that as it is the interesting point is that on their web sites most of the few that were listed had file requirements. On one of the sites CorelDRAW was listed first, now normally they're listed alphabetically not in this case, CorelDraw was the preferred native file format, they all listed it but this one preferred it.

I'm used to this on T-shirt sites, engraving and or embroidery sites but this is now several times I've seen it on a print site. A decade ago you'd never have seen this at all.

 

[Chasfinch]

David a Hackintosh is a PC first.