David Milisock
Well-known member
What's the difference? Ever since Motorola gave Apple the boot they're all PC's first. I actually got to play on a new MAC last Friday. Are they ever going to support touch screen?
Adobe CC Alternative The CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X8
- Thread starter David Milisock
- Start date
What's the difference? Ever since Motorola gave Apple the boot they're all PC's first. I actually got to play on a new MAC last Friday. Are they ever going to support touch screen?
the difference is that there is a lot of hardware that is compatible with OSX you can build a machine like you are saying and then put in the hackintosh OS. End up with a cheaper machine with the benefits of both OS's you are not making a microsoft boot partition to run in osx (unless you want). So if you prefer OSX for whatever reason you have it at a fraction of the cost. There are 400 laptops that you can put osx on if you want. Pretty cool stuff.
David Milisock
Well-known member
Affinity designers next BETA for Windows was just released. I test drove the last one and it was certainly a BETA it will be interesting to see the improvements in stability. The interface is certainly an Adobe clone, it's hard for s PC Corel users to think that way.
gordo
Well-known member
Well, they are going after Adobe's user base so it seems reasonable that they make the transition smooth - i.e. a familiar environment. What is your issue with Adobe's interface?
AP90
Well-known member
That its adobe.....
David Milisock
Well-known member
AP90 and gordo, the Adobe interface is counter productive. I can open a CorelDraw file and with the factory default work space preflight all but one or two items.
The Adobe interface is so counter productive that for large trade show back drops that contain small fonts and over lapping transparency most wide and grand format shops just let quality suffer and RIP the files into Photoshop. The small fonts look like crap but to fix an Adobe file it's a rebuild, in CorelDraw it's just a few clicks and within a few seconds everything that's transparent is flattened and those small fonts stay fonts. That's just two examples.
The Adobe interface is so counter productive that for large trade show back drops that contain small fonts and over lapping transparency most wide and grand format shops just let quality suffer and RIP the files into Photoshop. The small fonts look like crap but to fix an Adobe file it's a rebuild, in CorelDraw it's just a few clicks and within a few seconds everything that's transparent is flattened and those small fonts stay fonts. That's just two examples.
gordo
Well-known member
Thought you'd appreciate this: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/20/ibm-macs-less-expensive-than-pcs/
David Milisock
Well-known member
The problem is what you're assuming is that IBM is any good at their own system management. What needs to be done is to compare IBMs cost of system management with other companies.
https://www.google.com/search?q=IBM+stock&ie=&oe=
Click the 5 year average and you'll understand the decisions IBM has been making. I mean really they were dumb enough to let Bill Gates sell them DOS!
dabob
Well-known member
David . . . just a couple of questions . . . 1st in repsonse to the quote immediately above . . . . so you are better in overall system management than IBM "assuming is that IBM is any good at their own system management." Humm you must be REALLY good . . .
And secondly, in response to your "AP90 and gordo, the Adobe interface is counter productive. I can open a CorelDraw file and with the factory default work space preflight all but one or two items.
The Adobe interface is so counter productive that for large trade show back drops that contain small fonts and over lapping transparency most wide and grand format shops just let quality suffer and RIP the files into Photoshop. The small fonts look like crap but to fix an Adobe file it's a rebuild, in CorelDraw it's just a few clicks and within a few seconds everything that's transparent is flattened and those small fonts stay fonts. That's just two examples."
Just how long have you been working with the Adobe interface? . . . are you a certified Adobe expert or did you, like myself, (I grew so frustrated with the Windows and Corel - I tried both early versions and the mac version) that I just gave up and stuck with my Adobe/Mac system and have never looked back . . . . to quote the last part of the Movie Quigley Down Under . . .
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." speaking of handguns instead of his sharps rifle . . . I'm the same way . . just because I don't like how something works it doesn't mean I am not adapt at using it, ie quark, corel, and windows . . .
Like I said before I drive a chevy you drive a ford . . . and were both happy . . . or so it would seem
David Milisock
Well-known member
dabod, >Humm you must be REALLY good . . .
No I just didn't see any comparison to what it costs another company to maintain there work stations. That's the comparison that needs to be made if we're to understand if IBM is a true bench mark or just some big old inefficient company.
My largest client only has 285 PC's, 175 cell phones and 90 tablets in 3 locations with 1 IT guy all managed in one location. With an $75,000 total compensation package for their IT guy, you do the math. Mine came out to under $137 a year per unit. Sounds to me like IBM just might not be someone to emulate.
I have a ad/print shop client in Baltimore, I built them a small network 4 years ago with 45 PC's and two servers one for graphics one for accounting I call to check in once in awhile but they haven't had a service call since the day I left there 4 years ago. There ISP give them some issues once in awhile but I expect soon they'll need something.
As far as Adobe and CorelDraw with a trade show booth backdrop, please excuse me, Take an InDesign file with Photoshop, Illustrator and InDseign created elements in it all with their own transparency that over laps and output it. Worse yet if the PDF file you get was created in ID.
BTW what was the last version of CorelDraw you owned and used every day? I'm fairly sure you really don't know CorelDRAW well. Hell even Corel doesn't understand some of the stuff we're doing with their software. Unfortunately I was working on AI CC 2015 on a friggin MAC last Friday.
I used to run a 50 man print shop 40 were in production, now I do mainly wide/grand format and signs, still some print but only if they client has money and isn't cheap. Compared to signs and wide format, print on the printing press is childs play, clean up the file automated trap, automated imposition automate plating. Try making that over complicated crap output in RIPs they give you free with the print device.
Lets face it Adobe is still doing the same basic work flow from 1985. Take your photo link it in InDesign, take your drawing link it in InDesign, create your output file from InDesign. Same issue missing links, missing fonts, overly complicated fixes. It's not the cost of the cloud based software it's the inefficiency in their work flow. At the cost we can sell wide format for we can't rework files by taking them all the way back to PS or AI, they have to be fixed on the fly and in CorelDraw we can do that and not compromise quality.
No I just didn't see any comparison to what it costs another company to maintain there work stations. That's the comparison that needs to be made if we're to understand if IBM is a true bench mark or just some big old inefficient company.
My largest client only has 285 PC's, 175 cell phones and 90 tablets in 3 locations with 1 IT guy all managed in one location. With an $75,000 total compensation package for their IT guy, you do the math. Mine came out to under $137 a year per unit. Sounds to me like IBM just might not be someone to emulate.
I have a ad/print shop client in Baltimore, I built them a small network 4 years ago with 45 PC's and two servers one for graphics one for accounting I call to check in once in awhile but they haven't had a service call since the day I left there 4 years ago. There ISP give them some issues once in awhile but I expect soon they'll need something.
As far as Adobe and CorelDraw with a trade show booth backdrop, please excuse me, Take an InDesign file with Photoshop, Illustrator and InDseign created elements in it all with their own transparency that over laps and output it. Worse yet if the PDF file you get was created in ID.
BTW what was the last version of CorelDraw you owned and used every day? I'm fairly sure you really don't know CorelDRAW well. Hell even Corel doesn't understand some of the stuff we're doing with their software. Unfortunately I was working on AI CC 2015 on a friggin MAC last Friday.
I used to run a 50 man print shop 40 were in production, now I do mainly wide/grand format and signs, still some print but only if they client has money and isn't cheap. Compared to signs and wide format, print on the printing press is childs play, clean up the file automated trap, automated imposition automate plating. Try making that over complicated crap output in RIPs they give you free with the print device.
Lets face it Adobe is still doing the same basic work flow from 1985. Take your photo link it in InDesign, take your drawing link it in InDesign, create your output file from InDesign. Same issue missing links, missing fonts, overly complicated fixes. It's not the cost of the cloud based software it's the inefficiency in their work flow. At the cost we can sell wide format for we can't rework files by taking them all the way back to PS or AI, they have to be fixed on the fly and in CorelDraw we can do that and not compromise quality.
dabob
Well-known member
dabod, >Humm you must be REALLY good . . .
David . .. no I'm not a good network admin . .. that's just one reason I love a MAC . . . but what astounds me is that you absolutely refuse to listen to any other opinion than your own . . . so as far this thread .
etaoinshrdlu
. . -30-
David . .. no I'm not a good network admin . .. that's just one reason I love a MAC . . . but what astounds me is that you absolutely refuse to listen to any other opinion than your own . . . so as far this thread .
etaoinshrdlu
. . -30-
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AP90
Well-known member
I'm with dabob, but I'll take it a step further. No only do you refuse to listen to something different, you won't even acknowledge a merit of something other than what you use. Even when one of the largest companies in the world switches over to Mac, and shows how they save money due to less network issues and hardware problem, you immediately throw out their claims, and won't even say hmm, maybe IBM is on to something here. I should at least keep an eye on it. Instead, you say David Milisock is right, IBM is wrong. Honestly with your post, you sound like the owner of CorelDRAW and Microsoft.
WI-Flexo
Well-known member
Although humorous for the most part, I can't believe how long you are letting David Troll you guys. You know he represents a tiny sliver of a minority that would prefer using Corel over Adobe. Heck he may be the only one, at least on this forum. It is obvious he has no interest in entertaining anyones views but his own, no matter how flawed they are. As they say, there is no arguing with ignorance.
PrintIT
Well-known member
Reading his posts, I've wondered many times how much Corel is paying him for his services.
dabob
Well-known member
Not only that but he seems to think that Grand Format is a really big piece of the pie . . . I would seem to think that point of sale, packaging, commercial printing, and financial printing are just a little bigger than grand format in market share anyway . . . .
AP90
Well-known member
Agreed!
Also, he doesn't need to be insulting a large portion of us by telling us were dying out simply because we're using Adobe and Mac. It's not a relative statement or conclusion.
wonderings
Well-known member
I can only speak from personal experience in our small family print shop. I look after/work in prepress, design and on occasion in the bindery as well as run our Versant 2100 and keep everything tech and pre press running. The headaches and time saved by switching all computers save one RIP to Mac was huge. I no longer need to try and stay on top of people and watch what they are doing, what they are clicking and that all anti virus is up to date. I have Macs running untouched for 5+ years now. Now I am all about whatever works for you. I do like Windows in some cases and think Win 10 is a great OS. I built a powerful gaming PC and love how I can upgrade as I go, a new CPU, PSU, whatever really. When it comes to work though I will take my 5k iMac over any more powerful PC. Less headaches and no need to worry about drivers or compatibility or even just the wonkeyness that is sometimes Windows. I have a pretty beefy iMac, loads of ram, 1TB flash hard drive, it will serve me well and fast for years to come.
I don't even want to get into the Corel debate, I got rid of that application years ago. Started here working with Quark and Corel and both are rarely if ever used now, save the odd time we have to pull an ancient file. Again, each to their own. Adobe works well for me.
I don't even want to get into the Corel debate, I got rid of that application years ago. Started here working with Quark and Corel and both are rarely if ever used now, save the odd time we have to pull an ancient file. Again, each to their own. Adobe works well for me.
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David Milisock
Well-known member
Don't believe me guys read what the MAC experts have to say. http://resourcemagonline.com/2016/10/is-it-time-to-give-windows-another-chance/71629/
David Milisock
Well-known member
Also, he doesn't need to be insulting a large portion of us by telling us were dying out simply because we're using Adobe and Mac. It's not a relative statement or conclusion
Take a look at industry reports over the last 25 years and tell me how you come up with a conclusion that the current MAC/Adobe business model is good for anyone. Fewer print shops, lower margins, lower inflation adjusted salaries, I'll go are far as to say that in many cases the hourly rates being paid in many shops are what was being paid 20 years ago. If I conclude that an industry is dying it's because the numbers point that way.
Locally two shops, I worked in both, one 30 years ago and one 25 years ago. I was in the first one just two weeks ago and looked around, 30 years ago there were no more then 3 woman in the entire shop, now 85% of the employees are women, the woman who had what used to be my job was making $31k a year, $2,000 less then I made 30 years ago. Is this sexist exploitation or just no money to pay better? The second shop I left 25 years ago to start my own business, it had 10 traditional presses and 4 specialty presses I ran the plant except for sales. After 25 years they have 1 digital device and sell ad specialties.
How can you people live in this world and not see what's been the result of past practices? The young student needs to look at things differently if they're going to be able to afford to be in the graphics industry or just resign themselves to near poverty wages.
Take a look at industry reports over the last 25 years and tell me how you come up with a conclusion that the current MAC/Adobe business model is good for anyone. Fewer print shops, lower margins, lower inflation adjusted salaries, I'll go are far as to say that in many cases the hourly rates being paid in many shops are what was being paid 20 years ago. If I conclude that an industry is dying it's because the numbers point that way.
Locally two shops, I worked in both, one 30 years ago and one 25 years ago. I was in the first one just two weeks ago and looked around, 30 years ago there were no more then 3 woman in the entire shop, now 85% of the employees are women, the woman who had what used to be my job was making $31k a year, $2,000 less then I made 30 years ago. Is this sexist exploitation or just no money to pay better? The second shop I left 25 years ago to start my own business, it had 10 traditional presses and 4 specialty presses I ran the plant except for sales. After 25 years they have 1 digital device and sell ad specialties.
How can you people live in this world and not see what's been the result of past practices? The young student needs to look at things differently if they're going to be able to afford to be in the graphics industry or just resign themselves to near poverty wages.
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