Adobe Illustrator - Embedded Profiles for Linked Images

[chevalier]

Perhaps I made an assumption at some point or was misinformed. I'm being painfully diligent in identifying my steps however mundane. Questions/comments are the bottom.

I open an Illustrator file provided to me...

"Your current settings honor CMYK profiles in linked content but profiles were set to be ignored when this document was created." <Cancel> <Continue>

<Continue>

"Missing Profile"
"What would you like to do?"
<Leave as is (don't color manage)>
<Assign current working space: GRACoL2006_Coated1v2>
<Assign Profile: [drop down list of profiles]>

<Assign current working space: GRACoL2006_Coated1v2>

"Could not find the linked file "blahblah.psd". Choose Replace to select another file or Ignore to leave the link unchanged.
<Apply to all>
<Replace>
<Ignore>
<Cancel

<Replace>
I point Illustrator to the missing links(s).

Illustrator is now happy and ready to operate. I perform my preflight tasks - this does not include me relinking or editing the linked Photoshop file. I open said link in Photoshop and it has a "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" embeded profile. I close without modification or saving leaving the file in-tact.

<File>
<Save As...>
<Format: Adobe Illustrator (ai)>
<Save>

"Illustrator Options"
"Version"
<Illustrator CS5>
"Subset fonts when percent of characters used is less than:"
<100%>
<Create PDF Compatible File>
<Include Linked files> - NOT SELECTED
<Embed ICC Profiles>
<Use Compression>
OK

<File>
<Save A Copy...>
<Format: Adobe PDF (pdf)>
<Save>

"Save Adobe PDF"
<Adobe PDF Preset: [drop down list of profiles]>
[PDF/X-4:2008
<Save PDF>

Now the problem...
That linked SWOP image was converted to GRACoL via ACE with Black Point Compensation. I know this only because I had another lot that came in via PDF that required zero modification. The same image printed differently. I checked the builds and found that the differences were perfectly congruent to a conversion in Photoshop to GRACoL via ACE with BPC.

Why?/How?
What could I have done differently to prevent this?

 

[Greg_Firestone]

Hi chevalier,

Just a thought...(using CS4 here so the behavior might be different)

Change your color settings so: Profile Mismatches: Ask When Opening is Enabled.

Now open up the PDF/X-4 file you saved. You'll have to make a decision if you should use, convert, or discard the ICC profile.

If you have this option turned off, Illustrator does something... in my situation it removed the profiles. Maybe this info will help determine your issue.

Greg

 

[chevalier]

Greg,

Followed what you suggested. This is the result:

"Embedded Profile Mismatch"
"The document has an embedded color profile that does not match the current CMYK working space."
"Embedded: U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2"
"Working: GRACoL2006_Coated1v2"

"What would you like to do?"
<Use the embedded profile (instead of the working space)>
<Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)> - NOT SELECTED

This does "resolve" the problem of conversion when saving. Thanks

What it does not explain is...
A.) Why did it decide to convert when convert is not a dialog option?
B.) Does Illustrator automatically default to <Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)> when the dialog prompt is disabled?
C.) Why!?!?!? It makes way more sense to just use the embedded profile than make silent changes.
D.) Why is Adobe using the phrase "Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)" when this option really means "Convert to document profile" or "Convert to current CMYK working space"?

 

[Greg_Firestone]

What it does not explain is...
A.) Why did it decide to convert when convert is not a dialog option?
B.) Does Illustrator automatically default to <Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)> when the dialog prompt is disabled?
C.) Why!?!?!? It makes way more sense to just use the embedded profile than make silent changes.
D.) Why is Adobe using the phrase "Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)" when this option really means "Convert to document profile" or "Convert to current CMYK working space"?

All very good questions. Maybe one of the local Adobe reps/experts could chime in.

At least you have a workaround/solution.

 

[kandod]

My suggestion why that silent conversion takes place is because PDF/X-4 standard disables the Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities option and produces a pdf file with tagged source profiles + output intent profile i.e. that assumes in the end you will have CMYK image converted to the destination color space in this case your working CMYK color space.

 

[chevalier]

If the warning dialog is enabled and you choose <Use the embedded profile (instead of the working space)> the SWOP (or other) profile remains unaltered. If the warning dialog is disabled then then Illustrator acts like the linked image has no profile.

If a linked image has no profile assigned to it I completely agree that it should be assigned the documents' profile. If no warning dialog is enabled about profile mismatch it makes no sense for Illustrator to assume that you want it to use the document profile.

I suppose the very first warning dialog

"Your current settings honor CMYK profiles in linked content but profiles were set to be ignored when this document was created." <Cancel> <Continue>

is trying to address this but it is very ambiguous as to what this means Illustrator will do. Once I open and save the document will my current settings override or won't they? Shouldn't there be an option here to retain document settings or override with current settings? How do you override it with your current settings?

Logically in conclusion...

If you get the message Your current settings... and you have the warning dialogs disabled Illustrator will retain what the document had been set as. If the warning dialogs are enabled whatever choice you make on a per placed link warning dialog determines whether you get an embedded profile.

I'm not being egotistical here but if this is confusing/unclear for me a novice in profiles is likely going to be completely baffled.

 

[michaelejahn]

@ chevalier - sorry for the very long delay on my reply.

A.) Why did it decide to convert when convert is not a dialog option?

Adobe Illustrator does not convert the embedded profile when “Discard the embedded profile (don’t color manage)” option is chosen. It simply strips off the embedded profile from the respective content. If the content is exported to PDF/X and previewed, it shows the simulated content w.r.t the output intent exported with the file.

Please see the attached video for more clarification.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7236204/DiscardProfile.mov.zip

In the video, the color profile used is “Cyan only” which will help make the concept more clear.

1. Color Settings changed to ‘cutprofile’ which uses ‘Cyan only’ as CMYK Working Space.
2. Steps executed as mentioned by user.
3. In Acrobat, using Preflight, we observe the output intent as ‘Cyan only’ and color profile associated with the image as ‘DeviceCMYKColorSpace’.
4. We can also view the CMYK color values in the PDF image using the Output Preview tool in Acrobat. As we mouse hover over the image, respective CMYK values are shown in the Separations area.
Similarly, if we change the Output intent to say, U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2, the image shows all the CMYK colors.


This implies that the image still contains all the data and has not been converted.

B.) Does Illustrator automatically default to <Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)> when the dialog prompt is disabled?

Yes.

C.) Why!?!?!? It makes way more sense to just use the embedded profile than make silent changes.

There are no silent changes as explained in A.


D.)
Why is Adobe using the phrase "Discard the embedded profile (don't color manage)" when this option really means "Convert to document profile" or "Convert to current CMYK working space"?

Please see point A.