Aqueous Printers for Stickers?

[gazfocus]

In our shop we have two Mimaki CJV150's that are both toast. The one just needs a new printhead/dampers/etc whereas the other one needs a new board as well as ink leaked and blew a fuse.

We typically have a very good Christmas period and so tend to buy any new equipment in January/February so I'm starting to think about our options and I was wondering about whether it's viable to buy something like an Epson T7700D and use that for printing vinyl stickers (using inkjet vinyl) rather than dealing with solvent inks and the issues with printheads.

We're not a huge shop and don't have a huge call for stickers but we do a lot of sheet/roll labels so I can see vinyl stickers doing well if we had a reliable machine to enable us to advertise them. The reason our CJV's are in their current state is because we bought them too soon (got a good deal that now was a bad deal haha) and didn't put enough work through them to keep the printheads happy - that wouldn't be an issue with an Epson inkjet.

So, I'm trying to decide between the following:
1) scrap both CJV's and get something like the T7700D at £4,380 (or better still the bulk ink version)
2) scrap the one CJV and get the other repaired which will cost about £2,500.
3) scrap both CJV's and buy something like the Roland BN2-20A at £6,000.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[jwheeler]

We have the Roland VG2-640 (which is an eco-solvent printer) and we do tons of stickers on it. The machine is a tank. I think we've only had 1 service call in the 4 years that we've had it. We just make sure to keep up with the basic weekly maintenance (10-15min). We also do a steady volume of banners, posters, signs, magnets, etc on a wide range of media. We used to cut the stickers on the printer, but we do so much now, that we bought a Roland Camm1 GR2-540 cutter.

We had the same printer at a large airport where I worked making signs and stickers, and we had no issues with it either during my 2 years there. The prints are super durable and could stay outside on the roadways or in the terminals without any lamination. The VersaWorks RIP software that comes with the printers is also very user friendly with lots of controls.

Based on these experiences, I would confidently recommend a Roland to you or anyone. (There is a newer, faster model available now, and in smaller sizes)

 

[SoggyWinter]

Aqueous sticker media and ink are probably more expensive than ecosolvent.

 

[gazfocus]

Aqueous sticker media and ink are probably more expensive than ecosolvent.

From the quick look I had, they seem comparable but the vinyl for inkjet seems to be own-brand (so likely Chinese) rather than the likes of Metamark or substance.

 

[jwheeler]

Aqueous is much more limiting on application anyways: It doesn't last long outdoors (fades due to sunlight) and there's media that eco-solvent, latex and UV can print on, but you can't with aqueous.

 

[gazfocus]

Aqueous is much more limiting on application anyways: It doesn't last long outdoors (fades due to sunlight) and there's media that eco-solvent, latex and UV can print on, but you can't with aqueous.

I was hoping that laminating it would fix the issue of not lasting outdoors but yeh I get what you’re saying.

I might take a look at the larger Roland’s - just don’t want to go down the route of used again as ‘used’ and ‘eco solvent’ don’t seem to go very well together haha.

 

[ReproElectroProspero]

Sorry to hijack the thread but you all might be able to help me in my research phase

I'm on the hunt for something similar, but I'm limited on location and size - I'm in the middle of an office building and can't properly ventilate solvent or ecosolvent. So I really wanted to move from my current aqueous setup to a latex - but it seems like no one makes a latex smaller than 64", which I'd need to rent a crane and remove a window to get into the middle of this building. Am I missing any options when I search for something that will fit into a ~72"x90"x87" freight elevator and doesn't have a dangerous VOC profile?? A 64" machine ___might___ fit in the elevator if we tilt it, but I'm hesitant to do that for obvious reasons.

 

[SoggyWinter]

Sorry to hijack the thread but you all might be able to help me in my research phase

I'm on the hunt for something similar, but I'm limited on location and size - I'm in the middle of an office building and can't properly ventilate solvent or ecosolvent. So I really wanted to move from my current aqueous setup to a latex - but it seems like no one makes a latex smaller than 64", which I'd need to rent a crane and remove a window to get into the middle of this building. Am I missing any options when I search for something that will fit into a ~72"x90"x87" freight elevator and doesn't have a dangerous VOC profile?? A 64" machine ___might___ fit in the elevator if we tilt it, but I'm hesitant to do that for obvious reasons.

Idea 1 desktop label printer and cutter
Memjet or toner based label printing. This company's offerings might be a starting point, but check forums for issues with their products and memjet in general

Home

Empower your brand with Afinia Label's range of inkjet and toner-based color label printers and finishing equipment.

afinialabel.com

Another idea would to print the stickers on your toner press and cut them out with a small digital die cutter that has a sheet feeder. Zund is a fantastic vendor, but will be the most expensive option.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=digital+diecutter

 

[Robohopar]

Idea 1 desktop label printer and cutter
Memjet or toner based label printing. This company's offerings might be a starting point, but check forums for issues with their products and memjet in general

Home

Empower your brand with Afinia Label's range of inkjet and toner-based color label printers and finishing equipment.

afinialabel.com

Another idea would to print the stickers on your toner press and cut them out with a small digital die cutter that has a sheet feeder. Zund is a fantastic vendor, but will be the most expensive option.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=digital+diecutter

This is a rebranded plockmatic sc7000

 

[jwheeler]

Sorry to hijack the thread but you all might be able to help me in my research phase

I'm on the hunt for something similar, but I'm limited on location and size - I'm in the middle of an office building and can't properly ventilate solvent or ecosolvent. So I really wanted to move from my current aqueous setup to a latex - but it seems like no one makes a latex smaller than 64", which I'd need to rent a crane and remove a window to get into the middle of this building. Am I missing any options when I search for something that will fit into a ~72"x90"x87" freight elevator and doesn't have a dangerous VOC profile?? A 64" machine ___might___ fit in the elevator if we tilt it, but I'm hesitant to do that for obvious reasons.

Are you looking for a solution to print stickers or wide-format signage/banners? Or both? What limitations are you facing with aqueous?

 

[Robohopar]

What’s the benefit of aqueous?
I was always confused about the eco solvent, latex, aqueous printing options. Is there a simple explanation of each?

 

[jwheeler]

Aqueous = water-based inks. Comes in 2 types: dye-based, and pigment-based.

• Pros: Very low levels of VOC's and odor, so they're great for small office use. They can produce high-quality photographic prints, and are also used in technical/CAD printers for blueprints/plans.
• Cons: Dye-based inks have no UV or water resistance, so they don't last outdoors. Pigment-based aqueous inks are more UV resistant and waterproof, so they will perform better outdoors. However, many aqueous printers use a combination of dye-based and pigment inks (Dye for CMY, and Pigment for K) so full color prints typically won't last outdoors. You can help the prints last longer with a UV-resistant laminate.

Eco-Solvent

• Pros: Inks dry with heat and air. Very durable for outdoor use, resistant to fading. Can print on a wide variety of media (as long as you order eco-solvent media). Great for vehicle wraps.
• Cons: They do produce VOC's. The newer eco-solvents produce less than older solvent printers but you still need a well-ventilated room. You also need to let the prints "gas out" for a day (or longer sometimes) before you can laminate them. Roland boasts that their newest printer only needs 6 hours, but I'm sure that comes with several exceptions.

UV

• Pros: Often found in flatbeds and hybrid (flatbed/roll printer in one) because they can print on nearly any surface (including glass, metal, wood, plastic). Does not produce VOC's, however, it does emit other particles into the air and still has a foul odor. Instantly dry after passing under UV lamps. The highest resistant to fading outdoors. Not suitable for vehicle wraps.
• Cons: Requires a UV lamp to cure the ink. These lamps can be very expensive to replace

Latex:

• Pros: Odorless and does not produce VOC's. Fast drying with heat. Very durable - resistant to scratching, cracking, fading, and peeling, and are water-resistant. Great for indoor or outdoor prints. Also used in flatbed printers and can be used for vehicle wraps.
• Cons: Some limitations on materials due to heat drying. While durable, latex prints can be slightly more vulnerable to UV radiation from direct sunlight compared to UV-cured inks. Tend to be more expensive than other technologies.

 

[ReproElectroProspero]

Are you looking for a solution to print stickers or wide-format signage/banners? Or both? What limitations are you facing with aqueous?

We currently produce a lot of temporary signage, which works just fine on aqueous especially if we laminate it first. However we've recently been doing quite a bit of scrim vinyl banners, which aren't ideal for aqueous even though we have compatible media. We were interested in jumping ship from aqueous pigment to latex mainly to be able to produce these banners in a better way, as well as expand into rigid signage. We already do quite a bit of stickers, but the aqueous compatible sticker material I've found isn't great and is super expensive. We tend to print most of our stickers on digital cutsheet and then use a wide format plotter to finish them. Figured latex would also improve this, as latex compatible sticker material should be better quality, cheaper, and more efficient.

However as an inplant, my square footage is limited and my requests for additional space in a more convenient area of the building to grow operational capabilities have fallen on deaf ears.