Best Press in your opinion ?
- Thread starter nagrom
- Start date
gordo
Well-known member
I have recently done extensive tests on B1 format presses from the top manufacturers
KBA
Man Roland
Heidelberg
Komori
I would like to hear peoples prefernces and some reasons .
Thanks
What tests did you do? What were your conclusions?
best, gordon p
My print blog here: Quality In Print
Current topic: World's fastest stamper (video post)
Ran 4 various carton jobs plus 2 general print tests for roller marking,ghosting etc.
KBA was the best, has everything ,particularly colour control, reads every single sheet and corrects colour after 4 , amazing to see in action.
What do people think about the komori, I didn't like it anyone have a different opinion to that.
mark haworth
New member
you decide
you decide
Nagrom
It is logically sound for you to be the ultimate arbitor for what is the best press because it is for you and not someone else. Every area of the country has representation for this press or that press but what is happening in your area is significant if you are to make money with the machine. All presses require good support and all users benefit from this support. Your testing a tough form might make you feel confident but as soon as it is delivered then it is your press and will print how you set it up and run it. It then becomes a profit center which darn well better run great everyday, easily, safely and be consistently dependable. You will not have too many chances to impress a client so you have to be very good all the time. The major machines you mentioned print otherwise they would be gone, they all have loyal followers who do good work everyday. You will find however that in one part of the country printers would not even consider this brand or another due to representation, service, or overall reputation. This is absolutely the case. I would consider the "market share" of each too which then tells you who is more succesful in growing, and keeping customers. I would also seek lists from the manufacturers which demonstrate that they "keep" customers. This means the "demo" sold the first press but did the parts, service, speed, quality, reliability, resale etc SELL the second, third or fourth press?? don't get caught up in measuring every sheet or this or that you know that a press, all presses can only do so much to actually put change on the sheet. Holding color might be more important actually. Consider the logic of each design, the strength of manufacture and lately you darn well should consider the long term viability of the company staying in business, don't kid yourself some of those you mentioned are very precarious now.
good luck.
you decide
Nagrom
It is logically sound for you to be the ultimate arbitor for what is the best press because it is for you and not someone else. Every area of the country has representation for this press or that press but what is happening in your area is significant if you are to make money with the machine. All presses require good support and all users benefit from this support. Your testing a tough form might make you feel confident but as soon as it is delivered then it is your press and will print how you set it up and run it. It then becomes a profit center which darn well better run great everyday, easily, safely and be consistently dependable. You will not have too many chances to impress a client so you have to be very good all the time. The major machines you mentioned print otherwise they would be gone, they all have loyal followers who do good work everyday. You will find however that in one part of the country printers would not even consider this brand or another due to representation, service, or overall reputation. This is absolutely the case. I would consider the "market share" of each too which then tells you who is more succesful in growing, and keeping customers. I would also seek lists from the manufacturers which demonstrate that they "keep" customers. This means the "demo" sold the first press but did the parts, service, speed, quality, reliability, resale etc SELL the second, third or fourth press?? don't get caught up in measuring every sheet or this or that you know that a press, all presses can only do so much to actually put change on the sheet. Holding color might be more important actually. Consider the logic of each design, the strength of manufacture and lately you darn well should consider the long term viability of the company staying in business, don't kid yourself some of those you mentioned are very precarious now.
good luck.
Hello Mark,
I do agree with you that people in different areas etc will have completely different opinions on the same press.Obviously I already have a certain brand of press in which I can compare the others to, but what I am hoping to hear from you guys is things like " I had heidelberg presses for the last 30 years but recently decided to buy a kba and can't believe how much better the kba is". I suppose I am looking for testimonies.
I do agree with you that people in different areas etc will have completely different opinions on the same press.Obviously I already have a certain brand of press in which I can compare the others to, but what I am hoping to hear from you guys is things like " I had heidelberg presses for the last 30 years but recently decided to buy a kba and can't believe how much better the kba is". I suppose I am looking for testimonies.
arfamoe
Well-known member
We did all our research for a new 40" UV Sheetfed press for folding cartons. Tested all the big boys KBA,Komori, Man roland and Heidelberg over a period of months. Our tests concluded that KBA came out on top but was the most expensive, the colour control system was very impressive but not cheap. We decided that for overall value for money in a UV sheetfed press the Komori came out on top and that is what we purchased.
I have run two different 28" 6 color Komori's and wasn't impressed with either one. More aggravation per hour that any other press I've run in my 25 years in the business.
There was a story on 60 Minutes that determined that 60% of the people who were convicted of shaking babies are Komori operators.
Komori's are a good piece of iron, but it helps if you have a demonstrator, or a machinist with experience on them, to show you the ropes... We have a 40" and a 26" and both presses run pretty much faultlessly (for 9/10 yr old machines) for 16 to 24 hrs a day, 5 days a week... all they require are usual upkeep and a good offsider to keep up with them...
Like any press you need to be patient with them at first until you get a feel for them, and after a short period they become 2nd nature to run and give you plenty off information with regards to what they want in the feeder settings and delivery etc.. I have very few probs with mine and know that every job i put on it is achievable, and with little wasteage and fast press speed they are certainly an economically viable press for any company...
Lol
My kids are fine... i must be in the 40% that goes postal due to high levels of middle management stupidity Neil Meggitt
Active member
Might be easier to ask what was the worst large format press, I'll kick start this with the Miller TP104. Not too keen on Komori but to be fair the most recent one I operated was a Lithrone 1989 model, I'm sure they've changed.
Willy Pichler
New member
I could have written that myself. I ran a 26" Komori 4-col in '89 and Miller TP104's in 4 and 6 col configurations in '86-87 and '95-99. Thankfully those days are long behind me. Unfortunately I run a '99 SM102 which, when compared to the newer SM102's we have here is a total POS. It is however infinitely better than those old Komoris and Millers.
Neil Meggitt
Active member
Not wanting to highjack this thread with my new found mirror Willy Pichler but I went from the 26" '89 Lithrone to a MOV of the same year and it did everything the Lithrone was supposed to do but did it 10 times better. Is the gap between Komori and Heidelberg still the same? I know from a friend who was running new Komori Systems and now a Lithoman that the Komori Systems are still a long way behind the competition.
In terms of technology and for a B1 format KBAs have been on the top for many, many years. Some of the tech advantages of KBA over the other guys are:
-Universal grippers (forget about adjusting grippers whenever you change stock.... + they have a self cleaning effect whenever they open and close)
-Ability to disconnect the rollers from the cylinders through a clutch mechanism. Say you have a 6 color press but will only be printing 4 colors, you can disconnect the rollers so they stop rolling. No need to apply lubricants, no need to clean them afterward, simply connect when you need that unit and disconnect when you don't.
-Large double circumference printing and transfer cylinders. No need to chose between SM or CD cylinder configurations. All KBA B1s have double size cylinders. Easy to print thick stock.
- Automatic non stop at the delivery with no need to slow down the machine when you are using it. This little device is great, a rollaway type of non stop secondary pile simply comes out from the rear end of the delivery and holds the paper pile temporarily while you simply lower and exchange the main pile. Genius.
-Non wear, non contact ink keys. The ink keys in the KBAs never, ever touch the surface of the ductor roller, so no need to place expensive ink liners, and no wear whatsoever. If you have repetitive jobs, you can use the same profiles over and over without adjusting for key wear.
I could go on and on. The machine is great. Of course, it is not the cheapest machine out there.
However, what bothers me is that for some reason the Germans have never quite get the electronics the way the Japanese have. All German machines always have more electronic issues than the Japanese. IMHO, they should just dump all the Siemens electronic in favor of Omron.
-Universal grippers (forget about adjusting grippers whenever you change stock.... + they have a self cleaning effect whenever they open and close)
-Ability to disconnect the rollers from the cylinders through a clutch mechanism. Say you have a 6 color press but will only be printing 4 colors, you can disconnect the rollers so they stop rolling. No need to apply lubricants, no need to clean them afterward, simply connect when you need that unit and disconnect when you don't.
-Large double circumference printing and transfer cylinders. No need to chose between SM or CD cylinder configurations. All KBA B1s have double size cylinders. Easy to print thick stock.
- Automatic non stop at the delivery with no need to slow down the machine when you are using it. This little device is great, a rollaway type of non stop secondary pile simply comes out from the rear end of the delivery and holds the paper pile temporarily while you simply lower and exchange the main pile. Genius.
-Non wear, non contact ink keys. The ink keys in the KBAs never, ever touch the surface of the ductor roller, so no need to place expensive ink liners, and no wear whatsoever. If you have repetitive jobs, you can use the same profiles over and over without adjusting for key wear.
I could go on and on. The machine is great. Of course, it is not the cheapest machine out there.
However, what bothers me is that for some reason the Germans have never quite get the electronics the way the Japanese have. All German machines always have more electronic issues than the Japanese. IMHO, they should just dump all the Siemens electronic in favor of Omron.
Can only comment on Man Roland and KBA. From a pressman..no one beats the Man Roland in make ready speed if you are running small runs. KBA is a horse and is a king at runs over 50k..it feeds great and delivers 60# offset like a dream. I can not comment on Kamori or Berg, but would like to run both.
Alois Senefelder
Well-known member
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