Big problem with printing labs

[KanayeShogun]

Hello everybody,

I am freelance photographer from Croatia. In last 2 years I shoot more and more weddings and I like to deliver quality print to my clients. But there is a big problem with print quality here.
I've been to few classes about Color management, watched tutorials and informed myself on internet. I have also invested in my PC workstation. I have good 27" Dell ( IPS ) and I've calibrated it with X-rite for best color accuracy. But when I printed wedding albums Colors were off. Color Photos had yellow or cast, and the Black and White were awful.

Here in Croatia we have 2-3 printing companies that specialize in wedding books. And they all advertise and sell their books as top quality books. But the print is worse than cheep print on my Canon Selphy. They point with pride that they print on HP indigo digital press printer, but they don't have printer profile.

I've asked few times if they have calibrated printers and can they send me profile for Photoshop soft proof and they start to attack like I am crazy. They told me that printer calibrates itself every day and that they don't have profile ( for printer or paper ) because calibration equipment is too expensive ( like that should be my problem )....colormunki maybee?

So they told me that I should send them some sRGB files, wait for few days , then go to their place to pick printed photo samples., bring it back home and calibrate my ( calibrated ) monitor by their print! Calibrate "by eye"!

Am I crazy here or they don't do their job like they supposed to? Who is right? It's very frustrating....

Thank you,

Hrvoje

 

[rich apollo]

No, you're not crazy. They're not operating as well as they could.

Yes, the devices can be self-calibrating, but calibration only brings the printer back to a known state; it doesn't necessarily tell us much about color.

I would strongly disagree with what they are instructing you to do.

It wouldn't take much time at all to create profiles for the different printing stocks they use. They would see improvements in conversion of RGB and spot colors, as well as more predictable results with CMYK files. I think they would see a spectrophotometer and profiling software pay for themselves in short order.

 

[KanayeShogun]

No, you're not crazy. They're not operating as well as they could.

Yes, the devices can be self-calibrating, but calibration only brings the printer back to a known state; it doesn't necessarily tell us much about color.

I would strongly disagree with what they are instructing you to do.

It wouldn't take much time at all to create profiles for the different printing stocks they use. They would see improvements in conversion of RGB and spot colors, as well as more predictable results with CMYK files. I think they would see a spectrophotometer and profiling software pay for themselves in short order.

Thank you Rich,

They act like I'm crazy because I am asking color profile to soft proof photos in Photoshop. The manager told me that he is in print business for 15 years, but he sends me HP indigo PDF preset.joboptions as printer profile.

When I asked them ( let's say that your theory and process is correct )...what if I don't see colors that good, who is to blame if I calibrate my monitor by "Eye" and the print is bad.... What is the use of Monitor calibration devices like Spyder, X-rite then.
They told me that I should see a doctor then and that nobody told me to buy Calibrating tools.

And they advertise like top brands and quality books....

 

[rich apollo]

Seems like an odd approach to customer service, but that's another discussion.

It would be very easy to create a profile; just send them a profiling target and have them print it out. Then measure the target(s) yourself and build an ICC profile for your own use.

 

[gordo]

Seems like an odd approach to customer service, but that's another discussion.

Not that unusual though, sigh.

 

[screenpixie]

Why don't you consider bying an proper printer yourself? We've been working with an Epson 4900 with a built-in spectrometer for three years and seem to deliver good, repeatable quality. This way you can control your quality yourself. A lot of professional photographers work this way after going through the same kind of trouble you are experiencing now.
Just a thought.

 

[KanayeShogun]

Why don't you consider bying an proper printer yourself? We've been working with an Epson 4900 with a built-in spectrometer for three years and seem to deliver good, repeatable quality. This way you can control your quality yourself. A lot of professional photographers work this way after going through the same kind of trouble you are experiencing now.
Just a thought.

Because I can't afford it at this point and I need somebody who makes good books with good binding. I hope it will be an option in the near future
Thanks

 

[David Milisock]

Hello everybody,


Here in Croatia we have 2-3 printing companies that specialize in wedding books. And they all advertise and sell their books as top quality books. But the print is worse than cheep print on my Canon Selphy. They point with pride that they print on HP indigo digital press printer, but they don't have printer profile.

​I feel for you, if you can't send an sRGB tif from any image editor from a decently calibrated display to your printer and get decent results you're dead in the water.

 

[Danny Whitehead]

The manager told me that he is in print business for 15 years,

If he's that new to print, he has even less of an excuse! In my experience, it's often those who have been in the business longer that are most reluctant to employ proper colour management, and have an 'if it ain't broke' mentality, and all the wilful denial of what's broken that comes along with it.

It's possible their Indigo RIP is set to simulate a standard profile like FOGRA 39. Now if you could only glean than information from someone at the company.

 

[Schnitzel]

...just send them a profiling target and have them print it out. Then measure the target(s) yourself and build an ICC profile for your own use.

I did that once with a photo lab I wanted to print at. I got some weird stares from the staff when they saw the charts I asked them to print, but they didn't object to it.
Sadly, my efforts were all for naught, because they didn't calibrate the photo printer at regular intervals, so I got different colors depending on which time I placed the order. I have a suspicion the OP's print provider doesn't follow best practices either...