Brochure Folding ?

[jdr999]

Hi All,

I'm trying to find the best workflow for brochure printing. They seem to be a fairly low-priced commodity item and I'd like to do them as efficiently as possible. Some online printers even price them less than flyers.

We are an all-digital shop and can't seem to fold anything over 70# text without cracking.

Currently we print, cut, crease on a Duplo 616, and fold on our air-fed Horizon PF-330. Is there an easier way? I can't imagine the larger shops pre-crease everything.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Magnus59]

Hi All,

I'm trying to find the best workflow for brochure printing. They seem to be a fairly low-priced commodity item and I'd like to do them as efficiently as possible. Some online printers even price them less than flyers.

We are an all-digital shop and can't seem to fold anything over 70# text without cracking.

Currently we print, cut, crease on a Duplo 616, and fold on our air-fed Horizon PF-330. Is there an easier way? I can't image the larger shops pre-crease everything.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Joe

Grain direction is critical with heavier stocks, it can be troublesome with digital because the many of the machines like short grain stock, but if you're printing brochures 2 up, you need a long grain stock for folding.

 

[jdr999]

Interesting - I'll have to check on that as we do print them 2up.

Can 100# text weight paper be cleanly folded without creasing?

Does the added toner on the sheet make folding difficult and more prone to cracking?

We also do a lot of booklets and bi-folds. Should I be keeping paper in both grain directions then?

 

[Wheate]

You could invest in a unit that creases and folds in one pass. Couldn't imagine not having one in our shop, absolutely crucial for us. We have a Touchline Foldmaster CF375. While grain direction will absolutely lessen toner cracking, we routinely run 300-350 gsm stock with perfect results.

 

[jdr999]

You could invest in a unit that creases and folds in one pass. Couldn't imagine not having one in our shop, absolutely crucial for us. We have a Touchline Foldmaster CF375. While grain direction will absolutely lessen toner cracking, we routinely run 300-350 gsm stock with perfect results.

Is that a knife folder? I assumed they were for cover stock only. I wasn't aware that I could use them for text weight as well..

So generally, crease before fold is typical for digital?

I already have a Duplo 616 so I'd hate to have to purchase another creaser -- but I don't think this one is compatible with their knife folder..

 

[jdr999]

Grain direction is critical with heavier stocks, it can be troublesome with digital because the many of the machines like short grain stock, but if you're printing brochures 2 up, you need a long grain stock for folding.

I just checked and most of our text-weight 12x18s' are long grain. That should be correct for a 2up tri-fold?

 

[Wheate]

Is that a knife folder? I assumed they were for cover stock only. I wasn't aware that I could use them for text weight as well..

So generally, crease before fold is typical for digital?

I already have a Duplo 616 so I'd hate to have to purchase another creaser -- but I don't think this one is compatible with their knife folder..

Yeah the CF375 has a knife folder but it creases prior to the fold so no cracking. The lowest weight stock we routinely run is a 70# Accent Opaque. Me personally, I would never fold anything digitally printed without a crease. We have a Duplo 616Pro that we do use for flat output greeting cards and other creased items but for anything folded it's gotta go through the CF375.

 

[jdr999]

Yeah the CF375 has a knife folder but it creases prior to the fold so no cracking. The lowest weight stock we routinely run is a 70# Accent Opaque. Me personally, I would never fold anything digitally printed without a crease. We have a Duplo 616Pro that we do use for flat output greeting cards and other creased items but for anything folded it's gotta go through the CF375.

So you have the same slitter we do. Did you find it difficult to buy another machine with similar capability to the 616 vs. just trying to add a knife folder? I know the Duplo unit only feeds from the larger slitter, but there may be other options such as Count..?

I really don't want to spend the money, but in your mind it's worth the extra investment?

 

[Wheate]

So you have the same slitter we do. Did you find it difficult to buy another machine with similar capability to the 616 vs. just trying to add a knife folder? I know the Duplo unit only feeds from the larger slitter, but there may be other options such as Count..?

I really don't want to spend the money, but in your mind it's worth the extra investment?[/QUOTE

We treat the 616 as a totally different process, we purchased it with the sole use of cutting business cards and small items to alleviate our guillotine time. It's nice that it creases but for say a run of 2000 brochures it would be wayyyy too slow to be useful. The CF375 is only for folding, we do a lot of brochures so it was a no brainer for us.

 

[kdw75]

This is a good example of something that has always bothered me. Like you said brochures seem to be extremely cheap almost like the folding and creasing are not charged for from the trade printers. Most look pretty good, but we have one client that wouldn't accept that quality of fold because of the look. They insist on the quality of crease we provide, but using creasing matrix on our creaser.

Contrary to what I learned as a young man, experience has proven that when using creasing wheels on our folder you want to crease against the grain on text weight and with the grain on cover weights. Using creasing matrix you can get great results regardless of the grain.

 

[Pennypicher]

Probably dont want to hear this but the Duplo 616 is soooo slow. The newer 618 is twice as fast and much easier to run. The 616 was good when it was a new thing but its just really a slow point in the production line. The CF 375 is a faster creaser folder machine and great with the heavy stocks.

 

[ReproElectroProspero]

I just checked and most of our text-weight 12x18s' are long grain. That should be correct for a 2up tri-fold?

One thing to check here is if it's still long grain when folded.

If you're printing long grain 12x18, but are printing 2up brochures - you're likely cutting them then folding them short grain. (Unless your folds are in the same direction as your feed when printing, which is not the case for any 2up brochure I've ever printed).

 

[Robohopar]

We run the morgana digifold pro xl and it’s been great. Comes with a heavy cost though.

 

[TJPrinter]

There’s an old research paper out there somewhere that explains in very a scientific way why creasing across the grain will result in a better crease. Creasing across the grain allows for both crushing the fibers and expanding the outer layers of the paper for folding. Creasing with the grain is more difficult because you’re running the crease in parallel with the grain making it more difficult to crush the fiber layers.

If I run brochures 2 up on long grain stock I’ll have a decent crease, if I run them on short grain stock, I’ll have an excellent crease with no cracking of the stock or toner.

 

[G5MacMan]

We run the morgana digifold pro xl and it’s been great. Comes with a heavy cost though.

we just got the Morgana Digifold 5000P its an amazing bit of kit.

 

[auchprinting]

Like to fold on my Duplo 5000. I just hand feed, shift9. I like that the front cut makes everything look trimmed. Also great for wedding invitation, where you would like them to be cut perfect. Much more difficult using a folder, and trimming after.

 

[tngcas]

They insist on the quality of crease we provide, but using creasing matrix on our creaser.

Contrary to what I learned as a young man, experience has proven that when using creasing wheels on our folder you want to crease against the grain on text weight and with the grain on cover weights. Using creasing matrix you can get great results regardless of the grain.

For those of us in the back of the room... what is a creasing matrix? We have a duplo 646 but no matter what I try the creasing wheels just ruin the paper (tears rips etc) so we only use the creasing module but then it's tricky to get the exact scores to line up with our table-top folder.
We aren't able to invest in a unit that does both in one pass yet so I've just resigned myself to knowing that the brochures our shop produces are not ideal. We don't have complaints from customers but I personally hate the output.

 

[jwheeler]

See diagram and explanation below of a creasing matrix. Creasing involves a male die line pressing into a female receiving side, which actually forms a channel and hinge for the paper to fold. Since you mention "wheel" you're likely doing a "score" which only indents the paper, but doesn't actually form the channel/hinge of a crease. A score helps to make folding easier, but it doesn't prevent cracking like a crease would.

Source

 

[Pennypicher]

For those of us in the back of the room... what is a creasing matrix? We have a duplo 646 but no matter what I try the creasing wheels just ruin the paper (tears rips etc) so we only use the creasing module but then it's tricky to get the exact scores to line up with our table-top folder.
We aren't able to invest in a unit that does both in one pass yet so I've just resigned myself to knowing that the brochures our shop produces are not ideal. We don't have complaints from customers but I personally hate the output.

there is a difference between creasing and scoring. Duplo machines have a creaser blade and the modules if equipped have a score blade. The score is nowhere as good as the crease and I tell my customers that. Try creasing on the other side of the sheet. Sometimes it makes a difference.

 

[tngcas]

See diagram and explanation below of a creasing matrix. Creasing involves a male die line pressing into a female receiving side, which actually forms a channel and hinge for the paper to fold. Since you mention "wheel" you're likely doing a "score" which only indents the paper, but doesn't actually form the channel/hinge of a crease. A score helps to make folding easier, but it doesn't prevent cracking like a crease would.

Source
View attachment 294137

Ah. Yes. I just got confused by the word "matrix" being added. I thought this WAS "creasing" and the wheels were called "scoring".

Both our duplo have both options (Duplo 618 and Duplo 646). I only use the Creasing Matrix because the scoring wheels are unsatisfactory.
I just wish we had this inline with our folder so they matched. When we try to crease brochures on the Duplo 646 first and them move it to the Duplo table-top folder it invariably doesn't match the score marks perfectly and then it's a lot of unnecessary back and forth. The Duplo SCC don't really handle lighter weight papers very well. The 100lb text the static builds up everywhere and we get micro slips of paper that float around and get stuck inside the sensors (major headach) The 28# weights skew. :-(
Cover and Cardstock it works great though but the those paper weights are too heavy for our Duplo table-top folder.