Canon C6010VP vs Xerox C75

[mazengh]

We are looking to get into digital printing. We are a medium sized printing house with two heidelberg speedmaster 102 machines and one speedmaster 52 machine. We are aware that these digital machines will eat some of the Speedmaster 52 jobs, but the need for on demand quantities, variable printing, and small quantity jobs require us to have such a digital press in house. I kindly ask you to input your non biased information on each... pros and cons.

 

[Brian Segnit]

Sorry, biased advice alert, I am the product manager for Xerox C & J75. I think you will be happy with a C75 for the front-to-back registration (we have a tool to create auto profiles for paper), productivity (up time, customer replaceable items like toner, fuser, when needed, and jam clearance), image quality (over the life of the press, auto density uniformity control), ability to auto duplex a 300 gsm 13 x 19 coated and uncoated sheet. You can see the different finishing and feeding options at Xerox Color C75 / J75 Presses | Xerox Virtual Overview Tool. I am biased, a good unbiased way is do a search on both products on PrintPlant and see what users are saying (this is how as worldwide marketing manager we 'listen' to what printers are saying). For the C75 that replaces the Xerox 700 – so 700 is a good experience base (and the C, only offers improvements, but, is built off the 700). Good luck hope we can earn your business!

 

[mazengh]

Brian, can you highlight the differences between the C and the J models? Also am I comparing two comparable products? or is one a lot higher or lower than the other?

 

[arossetti]

We have a C75 and I plan on posting pictures of the registration. I have printed full bleed 11x17 on 12x18 270gsm coated. If I take a full lift to the cutter and cut .5 inches in I can hit the crop marks perfectly on all 4 sides. The registration on the C75 is no joke, I would expect front to back registration of +/_ .1mm on the majority of your work.

My major complaint with the 700 series machines has been the inability to change stocks in a tray while the machine is running. We constantly have 3+ jobs queued up all needing different stocks. Huge productivity hit in our environment. I would replace our 800 and C75 with several J75's if they didn't have this design fault.

 

[Brian Segnit]

Many more similarities between the C & J – but, the biggest differences is the J runs all stocks at rated speed, and has an in-line spectrophotometer (ILS). So with a J you don’t get a slow down on (all manufactures use A4/Letter as speed rating) on heavy or coated stocks, on a J you run 300 gsm stock at 75ppm – making it faster if you run heavier stocks. The ILS working with Xerox SW enables you to auto calibrate the press automatically – so you have a calibrated / linearized press. A C will have more office functionality (your scanning functions are richer) and you have the ability to attach some external devices like a USB reader.

Arossetti – Thanks for the feedback on the C75 registration (would be the same on J75), the SIQA tool is even more amazing then we had envisioned – it helps significantly reduce one of the greatest issues in digital printing – front to back registration. It is frustrating as some of our sales people don’t ‘get it’ on the power of SIQA, as they are not every day users of the press – but, if you ever had a press and tried to ‘fix’ front to back it is a challenge – now just print your test sheet (you can even define the amount of coverage on F or B) and scan the target, create the profile, and amazing results. Sorry I can't offer the change stock while run (I wish I could, it is on my future list, but, takes a lot of engineering) - you can reload, but, only with same stock. Thanks for feedback!!

 

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User mazengh specifically requested "non biased information", not a sales pitch.

Sorry, biased advice alert, I am the product manager for Xerox C & J75. I think you will be happy with a C75 for the front-to-back registration (we have a tool to create auto profiles for paper), productivity (up time, customer replaceable items like toner, fuser, when needed, and jam clearance), image quality (over the life of the press, auto density uniformity control), ability to auto duplex a 300 gsm 13 x 19 coated and uncoated sheet. You can see the different finishing and feeding options at Xerox Color C75 / J75 Presses | Xerox Virtual Overview Tool. I am biased, a good unbiased way is do a search on both products on PrintPlant and see what users are saying (this is how as worldwide marketing manager we 'listen' to what printers are saying). For the C75 that replaces the Xerox 700 – so 700 is a good experience base (and the C, only offers improvements, but, is built off the 700). Good luck hope we can earn your business!

 

[arossetti]

User mazengh specifically requested "non biased information", not a sales pitch.

And then followed up with additional questions for Brian so I don't think he was as offended as you are. At least Brian in contributing to the conversation instead of just trolling.

 

[AverroesDesign]

Ditto, furthermore he did warn of his view being biased but it was informative nor did he slag the Canon machine

 

[orvanon]

We have a J75 and we are very unhappy with it, were going to return it.
Xerox like all other heat based machines can't really tell you that the registration is only 1mm in difference.
every job is different and the amount of ink used on the paper is different we have problems between each jobs.

i wouldn't recommend using Xerox to any one unless they don't care about front to back registration, the machine is very fast and durable already have about 150k clicks on it.

Good Luck!

 

[arossetti]

We have a J75 and we are very unhappy with it, were going to return it.
Xerox like all other heat based machines can't really tell you that the registration is only 1mm in difference.
every job is different and the amount of ink used on the paper is different we have problems between each jobs.

i wouldn't recommend using Xerox to any one unless they don't care about front to back registration, the machine is very fast and durable already have about 150k clicks on it.

Good Luck!

Wow that is interesting, we are finding it to be the opposite for us and the registration. It holds really well, sub .05 front to back. I'm assuming you have a profile for each paper stock? Is your enviroment controlled? We keep ours at 20/72 deg and 40% RH.

 

[Brian Segnit]

Orvanon, have you tried the SIQA registration feature to create custom paper profiles? What you can do is create a custom paper profile for that stock. As long as it is not an unusually substrate (over / under spec for printer) you should be having good results. Has Xerox service looked at the printer? Sorry to hear your feedback. Feel free to send me a note at [email protected] if needed. Brian

 

[orvanon]

SIQA is a nice marketing tool but it doesnt offer everything you realy need, the tool is useless sometimes and on diffrent stocks from diffrent trays and on diffrent jobs,
i have 4 diffrent profiles for every stock, and sometimes the machine just decides shes taking a day off so everything is printing poorly.

i have stop'd using the productivity mode only using standard and "Normal with High gloss" on image quality since it slows the machine even more.

We are going to stop using the J and upgrade to a CP1000 fully spec'd with CDI+Full Width array and Firey Controller in the next month.

 

[kdw75]

SIQA is a nice marketing tool but it doesnt offer everything you realy need, the tool is useless sometimes and on diffrent stocks from diffrent trays and on diffrent jobs,
i have 4 diffrent profiles for every stock, and sometimes the machine just decides shes taking a day off so everything is printing poorly.

i have stop'd using the productivity mode only using standard and "Normal with High gloss" on image quality since it slows the machine even more.

We are going to stop using the J and upgrade to a CP1000 fully spec'd with CDI+Full Width array and Firey Controller in the next month.

How would productivity mode slow it down? I also didn't believe that high gloss ran any faster than dull.

 

[Brian Segnit]

Orvanan, I am the product marketing manager for C&J 75. As they are my ‘children’ I do love them, but, know they have limitations. They are solid value priced production printers that are multifunction for copy, scan and print. The J75 did win the BLI Independent testing ‘2014 Press of the Year’ for Color Light to Mid production, but, a Xerox ColorPress will give you many more features (that is why we offer a line from laser cut sheet to roll, and ink jet) the ColorPress full width array is amazing (I wish I had it, but, if I did it would change my price point). If your jobs are better served with the added production capabilities and speed of the ColorPress and you have the volume to support it – that is an excellent decision. I am grateful that you are staying with the Xerox family, thank you – sorry that your J did not meet your needs, I am sure you will be delighted with the ColorPress. Brian

KDW75, the J75 offers lots of enhanced functionality, the operator depending on the job can select from the DFE a Productivity Mode or Standard Mode – we created these two modes with Mixed Media jobs in mind, because the press must pause while the fuser temperature is optimized for each paper weight in a Mixed Media runs, using a Standard Mode optimizes productivity for those Mixed Media jobs. When running a single stock job use Productivity to runs the press at 75 ppm, enabling the job to pass over the fuser (optimized for that stock type) as quick as possible, whereas Standard Mode runs the press slower for those Mixed Media job, requiring different fuser temps.
• Productivity Mode: default setting on DFE, press runs at the rated 75 ppm speed for the full range of supported paper weights (64 – 300 gsm; 18 lb. Bond – 110 lb. Cover), this applies to coated and uncoated paper.
• Standard Mode: select in DFE, press productivity will decline when printing heavier coated and uncoated papers, designed for Mixed Media job to optimize productivity, and some unique stocks and unique jobs.

 

[mazengh]

I received the test sheets from xerox on C75 and from canon on a C6010. The same test form printed on both machines. Two different paper grammages, 150 gsm and 330 gsm. Xerox only ran the 150 gsm while canon printed both. Canon had a better gray balance and better look to the print. Xerox was better and representing highlights and small dots 1% to 5%. Canon prints looked darker than should be, and that's by comparing where the dots should print according to an offset fogra 39 standard where for example a 50% cyan should print at 63%. Canon had some skew in the prints(been told that this can not be fixed by non canon people). Xerox had wrinkles on some sheets and the prints looked flat(been told by xerox marketing and technical guys that this is due to heat on the drums and this can be resolved by lowering the heat). Xerox did not show a good front to back registration either... Honestly I wasn't impressed by the xerox machine, the reps said that the machine the test was run on was a customer machine that wasn't on a click charge model so they couldn't ask him to install new drums and heater units to get the required quality... and in my mind I was thinking, why do the test on such a machine... xerox didn't play right... canon definitely has an edge with printing on heavier stock as a business card on a 330 gsm stiff stock looks very close to the result you would get from offset.