Chem-free Process-free Plates Again

[SteveAgfa]

Paul:

re:
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This technology is the future and I am sure Kodak, Fuji & Agfa will soon follow this technology in the future.
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If so, I'd be interested in your thoughts about Derek@Kodak's comment yesterday...

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Concerning quality, be careful in comparing Xingraphics to Thermal Direct or Pro-T. I welcome additional competitors in the non process plate technology arena but they are just out of the gate. Remember, Creo was commercializing a similar (identical?) product back in 2004, and we stopped those efforts because the technology was measurably inferior to Thermal Direct.
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I'd love to hear how your approach overcomes previous limitations of "Switchable Polymer".

Regards,

 

[Ritter]

Maybe you guys can weigh in or maybe this begins to fall into the area of trade secrets but as a consumer of plates I would think a plate that needs no post-imaging processing including DOP is the future. I see no reason it wouldn't be as long as it can be developed to the technological levels of current plates (run length, holding screens, ink pickup, etc.) and/or perhaps beyond. Who cares you can't see the image on the plate? I've seen a warp speed transition in shops from crazy labor intense camera shot film to plates that need only a water rinse to print. Take out the next sequence without any hassles or risks like DOP and you've pretty much pushed plate technology to the edges of its limits with the exception of imaging speed. This is the 21st century after all and the last century we went from horseback to interplanetary travel, and extra-solar system travel.

On a side-tangent...
I would hedge my long-term bets on something similar to DI (what a debacle that was) that goes beyond the need of plates and eliminates the imagesetter as well (highly expensive, highly sensitive and expensive to maintain). Some sort of nano-smart-metal technology that had a plate-like surface built directly onto the press that changed on demand without the need of changing a physical piece. Think 21st century etch a sketch. Of course this would be a radical shift for offset lithography and perhaps by that point xerography and/or inkjet technology will have stolen all but the most extreme run length and quantity printed materials from offset litho. Remember that prepress is only a support function and if that support function can be eliminated some enterprising company/individual will figure out a way and will implement it.

 

[marktonk]

4. The Prinect System would be an artificial intelligence link between the SupraSetter and the XL105 continuously adjusting the plate curves to maintain a given printing result, such as ISO12647 and Neutral Print Density curves.

Time for a question, based on #4, is this possible, and if it is possible, is the MetaDimension workflow required in PrePress or will it still work with Apogee (current flavor of prepress with the LAPV plate.)


John Lind
Cranberry Township, PA
724-776-4718

John,

As Ritter said, we offer a MetaShooter Tiff catcher to the Suprasetter. On our faster Suprasetter, we even add this with a MetaDimension Prep. We do and can take standard 1 bit tiffs into the shooter and drive the Suprasetter as just a CtP device but we would be missing some of the added benefits possible with Meta and Prinect.

Now, I believe you are referring to our MiniSpots workflow where we can read special press targets (small or mini) to check dot gain and also color. This can be used to tweak the curve as the blankets get old to compensated for the small additional dot gain you will get. Added value to Meta is we can automate this to a degree with our Calibration Manager. Apogee does not have Calibration Manager so it can not be automated. Another benefit is if the hue of the inks changed, you can read the Mini spot sand adjust your ICC proofing profile so the next proofs will be adjusted for this. http://www.heidelberg.com/www/html/...inect/topics/process_control?contentid=539796

Another reason we would use a MetaShooter with Meta Prep and Suprasetter is for our Paper Stretch compensation. This allows us to print a 9 point target and determine how it stretches, some papers are minimal, some are not. This does not apply only to web but also sheetfed for super critical registration.
We measure 9 points on the target and program into Meta where the stretch is. Mind you, the uniqueness is 9 points, very accurate. Also think plastic or VLF. Any way this can be calculated in Meta so technically we can send a corrected 1 bit tiff to another CtP. Ripping the parameters does add time to the process. If we have Meta Prep going to a MetaShooter, the corrections to the bit map are done on the fly in the MetaShooter, no additional calculation time. So, if you are doing this with Prinect, the proper profile is automatically chosen by the info in the JDF.

Speaking of Prinect, if configured properly, we can preset up to 24 points on the XL, with Apogee, we are only aware of presetting the inks via CIP3 PPF file. This is no different than other 3rd party workflows.

So yes, a Suprasetter can be driven by a 1 bit tiff from another workflow but you would not have all of the additional integration we programmed into our own. If you just want to stop at platemaking, it works, if you want to integrate your print shop, it does with Prinect. There is a benefit to manufacturing press and prepress and postpress, we have an R&D that spans the entire printshop and now brings a workflow that does the same.

Regards,

Mark

 

[jlind]

Thanks Mark, excellent description of powerful technology. I really don't know if the workflow change is up for discussion.

Can you comment on the Xingraphic product? First I ever heard of it, but not surprised. Not sure whether it should be added to the four or not. Any users on XL105's? What's the readout like? I still think contrast and readout is important. Brochure doesn't talk at all about the mechanism of exposure and development. How much less expensive is the Xingraphic plate?

Interesting comments about the Presstek Aurora on an adjacent thread.

Unless we can get some printers talking, this thread is about done.

John Lind
Cranberry Township, PA
724-776-4718

 

[marktonk]

Hi John,

I am not familiar with the Xingraphic product, I wonder if they will be at Print?

Regards,

Mark

 

[Green Printer]

Hi John,

I am not familiar with the Xingraphic product, I wonder if they will be at Print?

Regards,

Mark

Xingraphics

 

[gordo]

Hi John, I am not familiar with the Xingraphic product, I wonder if they will be at Print?
Regards, Mark

Xingraphics. Yes they'll be at Print '09.

BTW, From about 1998, Dan Gelbart, co-founder of Creo Products, and often credited as the father of modern computer-to-plate (CTP) technology, in many of his presentations to customers would demonstrate a switchable polymer plate by exposing part of a strip of the plate with a cigarette lighter (standing in for the thermal laser exposure). He would then dip the plate into a glass of water to show that the exposed part would now reject water. He then drank some of the water from the glass (to show that it was just plain water). This was the "holy grail" for CtP plate technologies.

gordon p

my print blog here: Quality In Print current topic: dot gain/TVI

 

[SteveAgfa]

Gordo:

Ah, the good ole daze...

<snip>
[Dan Gelbart,] in many of his presentations to customers would demonstrate a switchable polymer plate by exposing part of a strip of the plate with a cigarette lighter (standing in for the thermal laser exposure). He would then dip the plate into a glass of water to show that the exposed part would now reject water. He then drank some of the water from the glass (to show that it was just plain water).
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Knowing a good thing when I saw it, and following his lead, for the past five years, I've always had some playing-card sized Azura plates with me, which I would expose (heat) from the back with a match (the airlines kept confiscating my lighter.) Then, I'd walk with the customer to a sink, and wash away the unexposed areas with just plain water.

Today, I should probably have some small Azura TS plates with me, and then wash the background out with beer (then drink?). After all, the new Azura TS clean-out gum is brownish... now that would be a demo! (smile)