cost per impression for offset press
- Thread starter mazengh
- Start date
Al Ferrari
Well-known member
Your question suggests that you are approaching the topic of offset printing from the perspective of digital printing in which, as with copying machines, it is a practical matter to produce as few as a single print of the same quality as in a much larger quantity.
This is not possible with traditional printing methods such as offset, and thus the question is inappropriate. I will stop here and let others flesh out the theme in case you need this explained further.
Al
This is not possible with traditional printing methods such as offset, and thus the question is inappropriate. I will stop here and let others flesh out the theme in case you need this explained further.
Al
gordo
Well-known member
Al is quite right of course.
Very briefly, in my experience the cost is broken down something like this:
It costs ~$200 to sell 1 job
Receiving and processing ~$100
Prepwork ~$300
8up makeready: ~$200
Regardless of run length
The press is usually billed out per hour ~ $400 per hour - some printers bill per unit per hour so a 2 color press would bill per hour cheaper than a six color press.
Then there's ink and paper.
Then there's finishing and bindery.
Etc.
Usually there's no profit, but once in a while the printer gets lucky.
best gordo
Al Ferrari
Well-known member
If you are smart enough to rephrase your question in this way, then just get on with it:
cost of printing 1000 sheets = a+b+c+d...
If what you want from the forum is help in making sure you don't leave anything out,
then list all the ones you can think of and how you use them in your calculation, and others here can add to your list or comment on your method.
Al
Plan
Plan
that's actually what i've been thinking of Ferari...
So far my variables are below
* Hourly Rate
1) Employee hourly rate
2) Electricity hourly rate
*Consumable Usage
1) Ink consumption
2) Fountain consumption
3) IPA consumption
4) Press wash
5) Blanket cleaner
6) Blanket life ?
7) Press yearly average maintenance costs ?
8) Press depreciation
9) Cost to rent location
I want to try to figure out an equation for all the above, but I think I should weekly average material consumption based on the jobs the went to press, then come up with that equation based on an hourly rate for each press.... Any feedback would be great.
Plan
that's actually what i've been thinking of Ferari...
So far my variables are below
* Hourly Rate
1) Employee hourly rate
2) Electricity hourly rate
*Consumable Usage
1) Ink consumption
2) Fountain consumption
3) IPA consumption
4) Press wash
5) Blanket cleaner
6) Blanket life ?
7) Press yearly average maintenance costs ?
8) Press depreciation
9) Cost to rent location
I want to try to figure out an equation for all the above, but I think I should weekly average material consumption based on the jobs the went to press, then come up with that equation based on an hourly rate for each press.... Any feedback would be great.
Last edited:
Stephen Marsh
Well-known member
mazengh, would it be fair to assume that you don't have a print MIS system - or perhaps even basic quote software (as I would hope that this would be covered by your software)?
Stephen Marsh
Stephen Marsh
Mis
Mis
we have prinect prinance, but it's not implemented due to the difficulty of the system, and the lack of personnel capable of learning how to operate it.
So I am trying to come up with something simple, hopefully it will be helpful for others on printplanet.
Good points Gordo, I should incorporate the press depreciation, and the money required to rent the space, even if I own it.
Mis
we have prinect prinance, but it's not implemented due to the difficulty of the system, and the lack of personnel capable of learning how to operate it.
So I am trying to come up with something simple, hopefully it will be helpful for others on printplanet.
Good points Gordo, I should incorporate the press depreciation, and the money required to rent the space, even if I own it.
RUsure
Active member
Overhead . . .
Overhead . . .
. . . please remember to consolidate the "overhead" into a single constant. That is the "cost" of the press per hour - you'll go mad estimating each job with a per sweat drop value for every consummable. Press make-ready is less of a constant than some folks will admit. Limit the variables - nail those down for each job. Run length, paper cost, #of inks, #of forms, finishing/bindery (calculate your "overs" needed for this arena's make-ready!), delivery/mailing - these are a few of the "by the job" quotes that you can anticipate. If you want to find a "per impression" number, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
And, yes, there will be no profit . . .
Have fun storming the castle!
Overhead . . .
. . . please remember to consolidate the "overhead" into a single constant. That is the "cost" of the press per hour - you'll go mad estimating each job with a per sweat drop value for every consummable. Press make-ready is less of a constant than some folks will admit. Limit the variables - nail those down for each job. Run length, paper cost, #of inks, #of forms, finishing/bindery (calculate your "overs" needed for this arena's make-ready!), delivery/mailing - these are a few of the "by the job" quotes that you can anticipate. If you want to find a "per impression" number, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.
And, yes, there will be no profit . . .
Have fun storming the castle!
mazengh
I have been working on just what you are asking for. I don't know if I've covered everything but i've tried. Take a look and see what you think. I've attached a word instruction sheet on how to use the calculator. I based it on a utilization rate. Basically you put how much it costs to operate to press for a day then factor how much per day you can use the press. Then enter the job information and the spreadsheet will use a percentage of the day and give you a cost for that utilized time. See what you think.
I have been working on just what you are asking for. I don't know if I've covered everything but i've tried. Take a look and see what you think. I've attached a word instruction sheet on how to use the calculator. I based it on a utilization rate. Basically you put how much it costs to operate to press for a day then factor how much per day you can use the press. Then enter the job information and the spreadsheet will use a percentage of the day and give you a cost for that utilized time. See what you think.
prepmaster
Well-known member
Costing
Costing
Since every shop is run differently, I would average out all of production expenses you have made in the last three months and divide that by the number of sheets that you have run on the press (not to be confused with the number of sheets sold). That will yield YOUR running cost for your current time period. It will be a good number to start. This number can then be adjusted over time to yield a more accurate figure later. I ask all our resident gurus to help redirect me if I am wrong....
Costing
Since every shop is run differently, I would average out all of production expenses you have made in the last three months and divide that by the number of sheets that you have run on the press (not to be confused with the number of sheets sold). That will yield YOUR running cost for your current time period. It will be a good number to start. This number can then be adjusted over time to yield a more accurate figure later. I ask all our resident gurus to help redirect me if I am wrong....
Don't forget to factor in plate cost, plate life, ink coverage and platemaker (CtP?) machinery cost and lifespan if you're going into that kind of detail.
Once you've developed a formula (if indeed this is possible, without making it just as complicated as your MIS)
be sure to check your price against the market. You might want to open a greengrocer instead!
Once you've developed a formula (if indeed this is possible, without making it just as complicated as your MIS)
be sure to check your price against the market. You might want to open a greengrocer instead! Stephen Marsh
Well-known member
Agreed, this is just the cost component of a "cost+" model, where the + is your markup and with luck profit!
Stephen Marsh
Stephen Marsh
Did anyone get a chance to work with the Excel speadsheet that I posted. I was wanting some feed back, bad or good on the usefulness of the numbers. I was wondering if it was to hard to figure out from the directions. I should have explained that I couldn't attach an excel file so i had to zip it to attach. Some remarks would be welcomed.
Morning Flight
Well-known member
Mazengh,
To become familiar with Budgeted Hourly Rates and how to develop them, do yourself a favor and find an early edition of "Printing Estimating" by Philip K. Ruggles. Current editions are pricey, but older versions are still available at Amazon and other booksellers for a fraction of the cover price. The chapter on calculating BHRs hasn't gotten shorter over the years (it still spans 50-plus pages!), but with offset, not much has changed outside of platemaking.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...&ie=UTF8&qid=1327609065&sr=1-3&condition=used
Once you have your BHRs sorted out, download the Free Edition of Morning Flight. A look under the hood at itemized costs will illustrate how it all comes together.
I'm not a big fan of cost+ pricing, but if the model works for you, Philip Ruggles is the acknowledged expert.
Hal Heindel
To become familiar with Budgeted Hourly Rates and how to develop them, do yourself a favor and find an early edition of "Printing Estimating" by Philip K. Ruggles. Current editions are pricey, but older versions are still available at Amazon and other booksellers for a fraction of the cover price. The chapter on calculating BHRs hasn't gotten shorter over the years (it still spans 50-plus pages!), but with offset, not much has changed outside of platemaking.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...&ie=UTF8&qid=1327609065&sr=1-3&condition=used
Once you have your BHRs sorted out, download the Free Edition of Morning Flight. A look under the hood at itemized costs will illustrate how it all comes together.
I'm not a big fan of cost+ pricing, but if the model works for you, Philip Ruggles is the acknowledged expert.
Hal Heindel
Stephen Marsh
Well-known member
I am curious too! Cost+ does not exclude market based pricing, it facilitates selling at market rates. It is easy enough to find the going rate for certain work. Why would you take on a job at the market rate - if you did not know your true costs and if you were actually making a profit? You could be making a loss on this work. Target the work that gives you profit, by knowing your costs. If you wish to take on the market rate job, it seems best to know how much the cost is and then you have some flexibility in adjusting your markup/profit margin to be competitive with the market rate.
Stephen Marsh
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