Digital Metallic Ink Xerox vs. Rioch vs. HP

[Linnybinny]

Has anyone tested printers that can run metallics side-by-side? Which are you finding yield the best results and quality?

I’m an invitation designer and my current print vendor has a Xerox C70. We’ve tried to print invitations on a black stock and our tests haven’t been as successful as I was hoping. I’m wondering if the Rioch or HP would yield better results.

I would love to connect with more printers in the US who offer this service. Please feel free to message me with your details.

 

[pippip]

If you're trying to print on black you need a printer with white ink for a base. I'm not familiar with specialty ink so can't help any further.

 

[Linnybinny]

If you're trying to print on black you need a printer with white ink for a base. I'm not familiar with specialty ink so can't help any

If you're trying to print on black you need a printer with white ink for a base. I'm not familiar with specialty ink so can't help any further.

White is one of the 4 colors on the Xerox. I tried to do an overprint. I didn’t have the best results. The ink was flaking off.

 

[namelessentity]

I think a sleeker would be a much better solution.

 

[pippip]

I think a sleeker would be a much better solution.

I doubt the black stock would be smooth enough to sleek. Any Wedding stock rarely is.

 

[bill kahny]

How do the sleek machines that put down the soft touch printable laminate do with foil over that. does it change the feel of the paper to much?

 

[pippip]

How do the sleek machines that put down the soft touch printable laminate do with foil over that. does it change the feel of the paper to much?

The soft touch laminate completely changes the feel. It's like a smooth velvet feel.

 

[Linnybinny]

The soft touch laminate completely changes the feel. It's like a smooth velvet feel.

The soft touch laminate completely changes the feel. It's like a smooth velvet feel.

I’ve tried Neenah Touche with the soft touch. It worked on the C70 the first time around and was not as successful when we tried it again a year later. Flakey and spotty. Plike works a little better.

 

[pippip]

I'm not familiar with the C70 but I was a very surprised to find it comes with specialty toners. Before ruling out Xerox I'd be finding someone with an Iridesse to print your samples. Much more capable Xerox built for this use.

 

[Linnybinny]

I'm not familiar with the C70 but I was a very surprised to find it comes with specialty toners. Before ruling out Xerox I'd be finding someone with an Iridesse to print your samples. Much more capable Xerox built for this use.

good to know! I have a contact with the Iridesse. Can you speak on the quality for metallic printing for the Iridesse vs the Rioch C7200x?

 

[pippip]

No sorry, as I said, very little experience with it.

Speak to your contact with the Iridesse, I'm sure they would have run similar. Alot will depend on the stock itself.

 

[scotts]

We have an HP Indigo and I have seen many pieces that we have printed on black/red/other colored stocks that look quite good. But as another posted stated, you need to lay a white base down first. Pretty easy to do actually. I'm not sure of the stock we printed on but with the addition of a primer ink we have had real good success printing on smooth stock as well.

 

[Linnybinny]

We have an HP Indigo and I have seen many pieces that we have printed on black/red/other colored stocks that look quite good. But as another posted stated, you need to lay a white base down first. Pretty easy to do actually. I'm not sure of the stock we printed on but with the addition of a primer ink we have had real good success printing on smooth stock as well.

Are you based in the US? Would I be able the send you some specs of a job I’m working on for a quote?

 

[axelmk]

How do the sleek machines that put down the soft touch printable laminate do with foil over that. does it change the feel of the paper to much?

Bill, we have a Xerox Iridesse and the results we are getting adding Sleeking foil on top of the printed sheets is really good.
We've tested both Coated, Uncoated and Soft Touch laminated sheets with Great Results.

 

[Mike the Print Man]

Our Rich 7110 produced some good results with white ink. We got rid of it before the c7200 came out with the silver/gold colors, but I've seen samples and they look quite nice. The c7200 also allows you to switch the 5th ink position from first to last, so you can always lay down white first, or switch to another color and lay it down last. Not quite as versatile as the Xerox Iridesse, but still better than the c7100 series.

 

[jwheeler]

Has anyone tested printers that can run metallics side-by-side? Which are you finding yield the best results and quality?

I’m an invitation designer and my current print vendor has a Xerox C70. We’ve tried to print invitations on a black stock and our tests haven’t been as successful as I was hoping. I’m wondering if the Rioch or HP would yield better results.

I would love to connect with more printers in the US who offer this service. Please feel free to message me with your details.

I've seen samples from both the Xerox and the Ricoh and was unimpressed. The foil 'prints' that Ricoh shows that look amazing are actually knockout prints on pre-foiled paper. They use a solid white to block out every area except the spot they want foil to show through. For the Xerox sample, I really have to hold it at an angle with just the right light to get even a hint of metallic sheen. As others has alluded to, applying actual foil is going to be your best bet. You can try this with a sleeker, or you can send to someone who has an MGI with iFoil. These will digitally apply a clear varnish that can be flat or raised (simulating an embossing effect), then it can apply actual foil to the varnish.

These prints look amazing and they are done digitally, allowing for variable data. Even though it's a separate machine, the registration is spot on - and even accounts for shrinking from digital or stretching from offset. Another brand that sells the same type of machines is Scodix. These machine's are several hundred thousand dollars, have a huge footprint, and require significant power supply - so if that's out of your budget, then perhaps you can contact them and ask for a referral to a local shop that has one. MGI is also exclusively sold by Konica Minolta, so if you have a relationship with a KM dealer, they can give you a referral.

Matt Redbear is an expert at this stuff and has worked at a shop called Blue Ocean Press for years that does this type of printing. I think he's now acting as a consultant for an MGI break-off company called Taktiful that consults for people wanting to get into this stuff. Reach out to him here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/redbear

 

[Linnybinny]

I've seen samples from both the Xerox and the Ricoh and was unimpressed. The foil 'prints' that Ricoh shows that look amazing are actually knockout prints on pre-foiled paper. They use a solid white to block out every area except the spot they want foil to show through. For the Xerox sample, I really have to hold it at an angle with just the right light to get even a hint of metallic sheen. As others has alluded to, applying actual foil is going to be your best bet. You can try this with a sleeker, or you can send to someone who has an MGI with iFoil. These will digitally apply a clear varnish that can be flat or raised (simulating an embossing effect), then it can apply actual foil to the varnish.

These prints look amazing and they are done digitally, allowing for variable data. Even though it's a separate machine, the registration is spot on - and even accounts for shrinking from digital or stretching from offset. Another brand that sells the same type of machines is Scodix. These machine's are several hundred thousand dollars, have a huge footprint, and require significant power supply - so if that's out of your budget, then perhaps you can contact them and ask for a referral to a local shop that has one. MGI is also exclusively sold by Konica Minolta, so if you have a relationship with a KM dealer, they can give you a referral.

Matt Redbear is an expert at this stuff and has worked at a shop called Blue Ocean Press for years that does this type of printing. I think he's now acting as a consultant for an MGI break-off company called Taktiful that consults for people wanting to get into this stuff. Reach out to him here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/redbear

Thanks for the info! I know the digital metallics aren’t going to give the foil look. Most I’ve seen look like PMS metallics. It can still be a good option because digital foil can also be kind of pricey.

I was on a Scodix kick for awhile but any quote I received were always really high and it’s not that much more for real foil stamping.

I’ll try and look into MGI - Foil a little more!

 

[Linnybinny]

Bill, we have a Xerox Iridesse and the results we are getting adding Sleeking foil on top of the printed sheets is really good.
We've tested both Coated, Uncoated and Soft Touch laminated sheets with Great Results.

Can I reach out to you for a quote with sleeking foil?

 

[axelmk]

Can I reach out to you for a quote with sleeking foil?

Sure, we are not a wholesale shop, but will help any way we can.
What do you need?
attached is a sample of the Gold foil on coated paper.
my email is [email protected]