Docucolor 242 vs. x700 vs 6501?

[Johntron]

I'm staring at pricing and CEDs for a 242 and a 700. I've read through these forums for hours and I'm trying to sort out the right for machine for me, and I'm hoping you guys can help.

I am running a shop that currently outsources 90% of what we print. The other 10% is short run posters and flyers from an HP Designjet 130.

Here are the factors:

1. I know for a fact I can cover the costs of a 242 by switching all work from the inkjet to the 242. I sell about $5000/yr in that segment. And I'm sure once I have a copier i'll use it even more.

2. The x700 (and 6501 if it is similarly priced) are out of my range unless i can either drastically bump up my digital sales or i can move a chunk of what i'm outsourcing to offset to the 700.

3. I am moving my shop to a much more retail friendly location in January'10. I have managed to be completely referral-based for a couple years ($200k sales/yr, about 50% of which is print sales, design and misc for the rest), but plan to start marketing in '10 to take advantage of my new location (noting that i am in an "island" area in florida, not a big city).

3. My main paper stocks sold are 100lb gloss text, 14pt matte, and a lot of 14pt UV. Main products are postcards, rack cards, brochures, business cards, flyers.

I realize I'll have to keep outsourcing the 14pt UV no matter what, but if I can stop outsourcing a segment of my 100lb gloss and 14pt matte, then I can justify a more professional machine. The type of work I'm printing is usually rich in color, and everything I outsource is full bleed.

So the question is, with 5 year leases, what is the best printer for me considering my paper stocks, etc?

 

[Keith]

I had the same question this past summer- I went with the 252 (same engine as the 242 only difference is speed). Come to think of it, the price was the same between the 242 and 252 because I believe Xerox is phasing out the 242. Another thing you'll want to consider is volume- how many pieces of paper you plan on putting throught the machine. The Xerox website has recommended volumes. If you're current machine is an HP Designjet 130, sounds like any machine would be a huge improvement. Here are a couple of things that I considered and helped with my decision- If you buy too small of a machine you run the risk of outgrowing it before the lease is up. That's an easy fix- install a second unit. Buy too much machine and that large payment could eat you alive. You may not be able to sell print fast enough before the payments suck up all your cash and it's not easy getting out of a lease. Speaking of cash, if you have tons of it, go ahead and kick the door in and buy a big honkin' machine and tear up the compitition! (That's what I would do if I had tons of cash).

Depending upon your area, make sure you look at other manufacturers. Konica Minolta, Canon, and Ricoh make engines that cost alot less than the Xerox. Even Toshiba offers a decent engine. It's probaly blasphemous to recommend an "office level" machine. You could probably get one with a three year lease with monthly payments that are lower than the Xerox.

 

[Johntron]

The local KM reps I've tried working with have made it pretty hard for me to get a proposal, let alone a machine from them.

I feel like part of the issue is they want to meet with me every time they have something to say. When I talk to them on the phone or email, they push to meet in person, and then when I ask for them to simply email me a proposal, they say no problem... 3-4 weeks in, with two different KM companies, and I still don't have a proposal in my hand.

With Xerox, I tried calling through the main phone line twice. The second time, someone actually called me back, got a little info about my needs, said they'd call again after the weekend and I never heard from them again. So, I called a friend of mine that owns a larger printing company in Jacksonville and he connected me to his supplier. I have since gotten great attention from Xerox.

The Xerox rep was leaning toward the x700 for me, but the lease amount scares me, so I'll probably end up going with a 242, but will it make good prints for me on 100lb gloss text? How about 14pt matte?

 

[Keith]

Service is something I forgot to mention. I had narrowed down my decision to two dealers because they both had offered me great service and were very attentive. If they have trouble getting in touch with you for something as neutral as information, could you imagine the rsponse time if you had a problem?

To answer your last two questions- YES! and YES! Before my Xerox I was scared of coated paper. I always recommended uncoated sheets for my Xante and IR3220. It was tricky to print on. But now, I push coated all the time! The prints look great! I print on 100lb coated text, 100lb and 130lb coated cover just about everyday. Both in gloss and silk/matte finish. The important thing is the brand. Not all brands work well. I used to love Mohawk 50/10 becuase it gave me the least amount of problems on my old machines and didn't jam. But that Mohawk prints like crap on the 252- solids are cloudy/mottled (they're not very solid). So, at Xpedx's recommendation, I tried Endurance and never looked back! And it's NOT expensive.

Make sure you do a demo! Take your files and paper and ask Xerox for a test drive- they should be glad to do it if they haven't offered already.

 

[X33]

100lb Gloss Text, no problem.

14pt, I don't think so. Officially, the Xerox DC252 supports up to 110lb Cover which is equivalent to 300gsm. 14pt is is usually above that (points does not measure weight, it measures thickness).

 

[Craig]

Official Smofficial.... if it runs, run it! The way I look at it, I pay a VERY LARGE sum of money to Xerox every month, I'll run whatever will consistently run, if they don't like it, too bad!

 

[Keith]

Official Smofficial.... if it runs, run it! The way I look at it, I pay a VERY LARGE sum of money to Xerox every month, I'll run whatever will consistently run, if they don't like it, too bad!

I hope my Xerox rep is not reading this....

Good point Craig! I run most of my business cards on 120lb cover. Not sure of the point size but the gsm is 330. I did one order on 160lb cover! That's like 400gsm!!! Ha! Ha! Ha! It printed great but the image would not stay centered. It moved to the top of the sheet. Could of been the fact that I used the bypass tray and not my high cap feeder. I'll have to try that next time.