Xerox Versant 180 vs Ricoh C7200

[pippip]

My guess is maybe this

https://printplanet.com/threads/xerox-versant-2nd-btr-streaking-marks-work-around.290741/post-296861

 

[azehnali]

nope
thats not a fix

 

[pippip]

nope
thats not a fix

I didn't mean my workaround, the actual post I linked from sidneykidney about a soft roller btr they recently had installed in their machine.

 

[Xose1976]

I've been going through the process of getting a new Digital Press for our Print Shop. I need some inputs from those who have been using these models.
I have the proposals from the big 4 Xerox, Ricoh, Canon and Konica for the following models.
Xerox Versant 180/ with and without the Performance package + Vivid Color option
Ricoh C7200e (4 Colors) / C7210X (5 Colors)
Canon ImagePress C910
Konica C3080/C6085

I have compared the print samples from all of the machines mentioned above on the same paper. From quality/registration/color standpoint, we narrowed down to either Ricoh or Xerox.
We ruled out the Konica because we don't like its glossy look. Ricoh/Xerox gave the most matte look compared to other brands since we like our prints to be as close to offset look as possible.

Price wise: We found the pricing is in the order of Ricoh, Xerox, Konica, Canon (cheapest). Click charge is pretty much the same. I'm not too concerned about the cost. You get what you pay for is our philosophy.

I've read a lot of posts on this forum. Everyone has something good and bad to say about all these models and the services.
Now, we are in Northern California where we are surrounded by these companies so services should not be a problem for any of these vendors.

I've narrowed down to a few negative points about the Xerox Versant 180 and Ricoh 7200 that might matter to us.

Xerox Versant 180:
1. 2nd BTR issue: lines on roller which causes bad streaking. This issue magnifies when running long NCR jobs or coated stocks.
2. Some people said they have experienced some issue with thicker stock and coated stock.
We tend to push the limit of the printer with different kind of stocks. Ranging from NCR (11"x17") to 12pt, 14pt, 16pt, 110lb , 130lb, coated, uncoated, metallic, synthetic, pvc.
Wanted to try some cotton stock as well but have not dared to try yet. Anyone tried to feed cotton stock through their digital printers yet?
Cotton stocks are mostly used for our Foil/LetterPress machines and pretty thick.

Ricoh C7200/C7210:
1. Envelope printing is a bit hotter than other brands where #10 Envelopes with Windows (even with the Digital safe version) might be wrinkled a little bit
2. Certain size and types of envelopes will need to have flap opened in order to print properly. We print A1, A2, A7, A7+, 6x9, #9, #10 with/without windows regularly.

Anyone has experienced with those Xerox/Ricoh models and tell me if my findings are accurate or not true?

Background:
We are Commercial Printer where we print almost anything from business cards/postcards/NCR/envelopes, etc. to high end invitations and other large format stuff.
We still run a lot of stuff on our old school Offset machines but we are slowly trying to get rid of those and moving more to Digital machines.

Xerox Versant 280 Color Digital Press

Versant 280 color digital press is the all-in-one, ever-evolving, field-proven profit builder. Reimagined to deliver everything you need in a mid-production press.

www.xerox.com

theoretically, the 2nBTR problems, according to my analyst, have been fixed.

 

[Xose1976]

I've V180. Konica C170.

My opinion. Yes, konica glossy toner is a problem for me, too. But... better quality printing. We have 3 offset CMYK printers and de both digital.

20 years of experience.

With linen tester, in small fonts, much netter Konica.

Color: much better Xerox. density and color are constants (sorry for my english, no t quiet well). Konica prints well at start, but after some prints, quality and density downs...

For production: Xerox. And for quality detail, if you don't mind colors density, Konica

And sure, 2nd BTR in xerox is a big problem.

Look to new Versant 280

 

[MrSchmidt]

I worked with both machines. For me Ricoh is far more superior to Versant 180 when you're producing long runs and have versatile stock. Vacuum paper feeding and very good registration got your back with no problems.
But If you're into color management (that Fogra complience and stuff; you would have to get EFI COLOR PROFILE SUITE) and envelope printing that is probably the only thing Versant is in my opinion a bit better. But for a commercial printing office Ricoh is more durable, problem free digital press with great color consistency.
My thought was also that Ricoh did produce a bit more shiny output than Versant.

 

[[email protected]]

can you find out what he did on the versant to get rid of the issue
thanks

Sorry I have no idea, but I got the impression that it was a know problem as when he looked at the machine he said, "Hold on I have to get something from the van" He did not come back carrying boxes; consequently I presume it was just a tool he had forgot to bring. He only spent 15 minutes on each machine to resolve the problem, again giving the impression it was no big deal, but whatever he reconfigured it is still working today.

 

[azehnali]

Sorry I have no idea, but I got the impression that it was a know problem as when he looked at the machine he said, "Hold on I have to get something from the van" He did not come back carrying boxes; consequently I presume it was just a tool he had forgot to bring. He only spent 15 minutes on each machine to resolve the problem, again giving the impression it was no big deal, but whatever he reconfigured it is still working today.

please try to ask him
thanks

 

[Some Guy]

There is no resolve to the 2nd btr issue. Best you can hope is try another brand of paper.

 

[JH1986]

Xerox have new BTR part numbers for the V180 from the older V80 style. They have also introduced a number of NVM changes to the way the BTR behaves. Since all of this, we have seen a drastic improvement on BTR life in the field. We have also had a lot of our customers change their silk stocks to Silver Digital, which is great stock. We don't consider the BTR too much of an issue now. I keep them in the car, but I am not replacing nearly as many.

 

[pippip]

Xerox have new BTR part numbers for the V180 from the older V80 style. They have also introduced a number of NVM changes to the way the BTR behaves. Since all of this, we have seen a drastic improvement on BTR life in the field. We have also had a lot of our customers change their silk stocks to Silver Digital, which is great stock. We don't consider the BTR too much of an issue now. I keep them in the car, but I am not replacing nearly as many.

That's good to know, will have to ask our tech if they've heard these changes.

I presume that's "Zanders" Silver Digital, I've tried that on our V80 but couldn't get the 130gsm silk to hold register, kept building up static as the job ran.
Techs replaced a few parts but couldn't get it to hold. Only stock I've ever really had trouble with. Tried a second time when an incorrect order came in but happened again.

 

[PrintingInLincs]

I hate my V180 so I wouldn't vouch for it. Alignment all over the place.

 

[pippip]

I hate my V180 so I wouldn't vouch for it. Alignment all over the place.

Sorry I really feel you shouldn't be putting opinions forward on other threads regarding the V180 until you solve the issues you have with your new machine.
You still haven't established whether you're experiencing a faulty machine or user error but it's no help to say "alignment is all over the place" these machines simply aren't all over the place when working and used correctly.

 

[azehnali]

do you have the new part number for the BTR?

 

[Sundance]

Check to see if Xerox has a program to let you work on the machine if it goes down, Ricoh has the TRCU program where they will train you to fix quite a bit on the machine and it is a huge time saver when you go down, they also keep parts on site.

I am still testing the 7200e I had installed last week so I will hold off judgment till I have had it a while longer, I have a 7110 still and have been happy with that model. I never could get the 7110 to feed envelopes and I am working on that with the 7200e.

On the envelope issue..are you turning off double feed detect and skew detect..we run envelopes fine on our ricoh 7100

 

[Shawnd]

On the envelope issue..are you turning off double feed detect and skew detect..we run envelopes fine on our ricoh 7100

When you say envelopes, are you saying you run #10's though your 7100 without the flap open? Video please!

 

[QTab]

I have experience of running some of these. First the Xerox. Both Versant 80 and 2100 and 3100 all had 2nd BTR (bias transfer roller) problems until another engineer was sent ( as the first pair were unable to resolve the problem), he fixed all three machines within 45 minutes and they have never had a problem since.
Second the Ricoh with 5th colour white, client eventually gave up and it only runs cmyk, but it works.
Third Canon. At one point in the UK Canon were undercutting their own dealers to try and get sales. They still have the (deserved) reputation of paper feeds jamming unles you spend a little time shuffling the paper to aerate the sheets before loading.
Finally the best quality can only be obtained by colour calibrating these units properly - everyday even if running 24/7.

I'd love to know what they did, That is my life with the 3100 series. Cant wait to see them go.

 

[Mr Production Print]

I've been going through the process of getting a new Digital Press for our Print Shop. I need some inputs from those who have been using these models.
I have the proposals from the big 4 Xerox, Ricoh, Canon and Konica for the following models.
Xerox Versant 180/ with and without the Performance package + Vivid Color option
Ricoh C7200e (4 Colors) / C7210X (5 Colors)
Canon ImagePress C910
Konica C3080/C6085

I have compared the print samples from all of the machines mentioned above on the same paper. From quality/registration/color standpoint, we narrowed down to either Ricoh or Xerox.
We ruled out the Konica because we don't like its glossy look. Ricoh/Xerox gave the most matte look compared to other brands since we like our prints to be as close to offset look as possible.

Price wise: We found the pricing is in the order of Ricoh, Xerox, Konica, Canon (cheapest). Click charge is pretty much the same. I'm not too concerned about the cost. You get what you pay for is our philosophy.

I've read a lot of posts on this forum. Everyone has something good and bad to say about all these models and the services.
Now, we are in Northern California where we are surrounded by these companies so services should not be a problem for any of these vendors.

I've narrowed down to a few negative points about the Xerox Versant 180 and Ricoh 7200 that might matter to us.

Xerox Versant 180:
1. 2nd BTR issue: lines on roller which causes bad streaking. This issue magnifies when running long NCR jobs or coated stocks.
2. Some people said they have experienced some issue with thicker stock and coated stock.
We tend to push the limit of the printer with different kind of stocks. Ranging from NCR (11"x17") to 12pt, 14pt, 16pt, 110lb , 130lb, coated, uncoated, metallic, synthetic, pvc.
Wanted to try some cotton stock as well but have not dared to try yet. Anyone tried to feed cotton stock through their digital printers yet?
Cotton stocks are mostly used for our Foil/LetterPress machines and pretty thick.

Ricoh C7200/C7210:
1. Envelope printing is a bit hotter than other brands where #10 Envelopes with Windows (even with the Digital safe version) might be wrinkled a little bit
2. Certain size and types of envelopes will need to have flap opened in order to print properly. We print A1, A2, A7, A7+, 6x9, #9, #10 with/without windows regularly.

Anyone has experienced with those Xerox/Ricoh models and tell me if my findings are accurate or not true?

Background:
We are Commercial Printer where we print almost anything from business cards/postcards/NCR/envelopes, etc. to high end invitations and other large format stuff.
We still run a lot of stuff on our old school Offset machines but we are slowly trying to get rid of those and moving more to Digital machines.

You can turn down the fusing temperatures on the Ricoh c7200. The pre-set media catalogue is far too hot when selecting envelopes. Turn it down to the lowest setting you can get away with.
The Versant 280 and 3100/4100 have pretty much the same image quality, however, the full width array on the bigger Versants keeps the colour consistency a bit better than the manual 180 SIQA tools. In my view, the 5 minutes it takes to do a manual calibration isn't the end of the world and it's usually more accurate! You could include the Ricoh c5310 in your consideration. This would face-off against the V180, KM3080, Canon c910 (the other rivals). The c7200 is a bigger more expensive unit all round.