drop shadow on Igen 4

[snydawg]

Anyone having trouble with blocks showing around drop shadows when printing a file on the Igen 4 ? Only way we have found to correct the problem is to rip it through Rampage. Too time consuming to use this as an option everytime.

 

[Beergod]

What rip do you have on the IGEN?
What are you printing out of?
Is it a PDF?
Drop shadows are a transparency so you have to be sure that if you are using a PDF, the settings dont flatten the document. Most likely you are getting flattening from somewhere.

 

[UberTech]

Dunno much about I-GEN rips but have you tried to print as separations and then combine at the rip? I think this is more CS "feature"

 

[Craig]

It's a transparency issue with the drop shadow, convert the color under the shadow to a CMYK value and see if it goes away.

 

[UberTech]

It's a transparency issue with the drop shadow, convert the color under the shadow to a CMYK value and see if it goes away.

The effect only happens if you have a spot colour under the transparency. Convert the colour to a CMYK and the whole reason for spot colours goes out the window doesn't it? Unless you have colour protection on your rip.

 

[Craig]

The effect only happens if you have a spot colour under the transparency. Convert the colour to a CMYK and the whole reason for spot colours goes out the window doesn't it? Unless you have colour protection on your rip.

FYI - you may want to invest in a Pantone Bridge so you can see ahead of time what happens to a Pantone Spot color when it is converted to CMYK. Many of the PMS colors are out of the CMYK gamut. Even with "color protection" on the rip it will convert the PMS color to the appropriate Pantone approved CMYK value, it does not magically print in a PMS ink.

Just wanted to clarify that point, the print engine will only print in CMYK. So in that sense ALL Pantone/Spot colors are useless with the exception of the color information communicated with the rip.

 

[wonderings]

Anyone having trouble with blocks showing around drop shadows when printing a file on the Igen 4 ? Only way we have found to correct the problem is to rip it through Rampage. Too time consuming to use this as an option everytime.

We have the same issue with our Xerox 260 with EFI Fiery rip, obviously not in the same league, but same problem with drop shadows. I tried converting to cmyk, same problem. I have yet to find a solution for this.

 

[Beergod]

If you have spot color matching capabilities with your rip then you do not want to convert your spot colors to CMYK. You will get a better match as spot. With this function, the RIP does not just simply convert to the bridge build, it uses a L*a*b* reading to get as close as possible to the solid chip.
The dropshadow problem is a result of flattening. Contact a rep from the RIP manufacturer and tell them that your dropshadows are flattening and you are not sure how to correct it. They will be able to tell you the right combination of settings to get it to go through.
With the Fiery, I have had them flatten when printing from the Command Workstation and the only way to cure it for this particular file was to print it directly from Acrobat using a PPD for the machine.

 

[wonderings]

If you have spot color matching capabilities with your rip then you do not want to convert your spot colors to CMYK. You will get a better match as spot. With this function, the RIP does not just simply convert to the bridge build, it uses a L*a*b* reading to get as close as possible to the solid chip.
The dropshadow problem is a result of flattening. Contact a rep from the RIP manufacturer and tell them that your dropshadows are flattening and you are not sure how to correct it. They will be able to tell you the right combination of settings to get it to go through.
With the Fiery, I have had them flatten when printing from the Command Workstation and the only way to cure it for this particular file was to print it directly from Acrobat using a PPD for the machine.

Thanks for that info! I turned off spot colour matching and a file I was having the problem with printed just fine. Its just that simple... for me at least.

 

[UberTech]

FYI - you may want to invest in a Pantone Bridge so you can see ahead of time what happens to a Pantone Spot color when it is converted to CMYK. Many of the PMS colors are out of the CMYK gamut. Even with "color protection" on the rip it will convert the PMS color to the appropriate Pantone approved CMYK value, it does not magically print in a PMS ink.

Just wanted to clarify that point, the print engine will only print in CMYK. So in that sense ALL Pantone/Spot colors are useless with the exception of the color information communicated with the rip.

On the creo (on KM machines) you can print a complete swatch table that is within gamut. Unlike the fierys the swatch is a decent size. Then the designer can offer the customer the chart to chose a colour that is to there likeing. Then they design with that swatch. Telling them to turn off spot colours just seems to get an abrasive reaction.

If you have a creo on a c6500 the swatch files are on the D drive under 'color files'.

 

[jameslwilson]

We're having a similar issue on Xerox platforms, and assumed it was related to the DocuSP front end.

 

[Eyal Gragir]

could it be as simple as using jpeg ?!

 

[Craig]

On the creo (on KM machines) you can print a complete swatch table that is within gamut. Unlike the fierys the swatch is a decent size. Then the designer can offer the customer the chart to chose a colour that is to there likeing. Then they design with that swatch. Telling them to turn off spot colours just seems to get an abrasive reaction.

If you have a creo on a c6500 the swatch files are on the D drive under 'color files'.

You can't print all Pantone colors in gamut with 4 color process and get them to match, it's imposable. It makes no difference if you have Creo, EFI or Bob's Front End, it will not happen ever, ever, ever. You can indeed match the CMYK values of the Pantone Bridge, but not the Pantone colors. Try to match (to the Pantone guide NOT what the copier prints) PMS 137 or anything in the 800 range if you think I'm wrong.

By the way, you can generate a Pantone color guide automatically from within CorelDraw to print on any engine at any size.

 

[UberTech]

You can't print all Pantone colors in gamut with 4 color process and get them to match, it's imposable. It makes no difference if you have Creo, EFI or Bob's Front End, it will not happen ever, ever, ever. You can indeed match the CMYK values of the Pantone Bridge, but not the Pantone colors. Try to match (to the Pantone guide NOT what the copier prints) PMS 137 or anything in the 800 range if you think I'm wrong.

By the way, you can generate a Pantone color guide automatically from within CorelDraw to print on any engine at any size.

What colours are produced isn't really the argument here. I could get a swatch book from 5 different printers and their version of any particular spot would probably differ. There is a pantone system for a reason and your suggestion just says forget pantone. If you print using CMYK then what colours are produced are effected by the colour flow of the rip where as spots bypass this and are only effected by the output profile and calibration.

If there was no difference between the CMYK version and the spot version of a colour then this thread would not exist as this effect would not be manifested.

If my customer said a CMYK file prints different on two different machines I could argue the point a million things could cause it. If the customer said a spot colour is completely different on two machines then I’m duty bound to investigate the problem.

This guide is from adobe an covers transparency Adobe - Design Center : A designer's guide to transparency for print output using Adobe Creative Suite 2 software It's for CS2 but seems relevant.

 

[Craig]

What colours are produced isn't really the argument here. I could get a swatch book from 5 different printers and their version of any particular spot would probably differ. There is a pantone system for a reason and your suggestion just says forget pantone. If you print using CMYK then what colours are produced are effected by the colour flow of the rip where as spots bypass this and are only effected by the output profile and calibration.

If there was no difference between the CMYK version and the spot version of a colour then this thread would not exist as this effect would not be manifested.

If my customer said a CMYK file prints different on two different machines I could argue the point a million things could cause it. If the customer said a spot colour is completely different on two machines then I’m duty bound to investigate the problem.

This guide is from adobe an covers transparency Adobe - Design Center : A designer's guide to transparency for print output using Adobe Creative Suite 2 software It's for CS2 but seems relevant.

Your post shows that you are tech threw and threw and you really only know if something is printed in color or black and white and you never worked with ink.

I suggested to the OP to get the Pantone Bridge, which show a side by side comparison from Pantone showing the Pantone color as printed on a real printing press with Pantone inks vs a CMYK equivalent printed on a real printing press with real CMYK ink (you know, the kind that gets under your fingernails). This is a guide to show your client what to expect when a Pantone color is converted to CMYK. Then they can make an intelligent decision whether they want the Pantone color added to the job or if the CMYK will suffice.

My suggestion is NOT to forget Pantone, BUT the fact that you CAN"T PRINT PANTONE COLORS WITH A COLOR COPIER! Only their CMYK equivalent! Therefore converting the Pantone color to it's closest process match to get the transparency issue resolved is an acceptable work around, after all the rip will do the same thing.

"If my customer said a CMYK file prints different on two different machines I could argue the point a million things could cause it. If the customer said a spot colour is completely different on two machines then I’m duty bound to investigate the problem.

This is a line of crap, their both the same. Bad developer, drums... whatever will effect both the same! It ONLY PRINTS IN CMYK NOT PANTONE COLORS! WHERE DO YOU LOAD THE PANTONE TONER????????

 

[UberTech]

The printing press people (that I have no idea about) that have our machines have a massive back catalogue of spot colour files. If I was to say to them here's a colour bridge go for your life they would spew.

Good for you for finding an acceptable solution in your workflow.

 

[Craig]

Again you have no clue what you are talking about, just do your job and keep them running. Let printers print.

 

[UberTech]

Again you have no clue what you are talking about, just do your job and keep them running. Let printers print.

Good for you for finding an acceptable solution in your workflow