Enhancing Greyscale Photography for Digital Printing

[B&WMan]

Hello All,

I'm prepping final artwork for printing a calendar in black and white.

Will go with 1c (Ultra Black)

I scanned original prints at greyscale 4000dpi 8 bit -
Created artwork in Ai and converted into PDF file and converted to greyscale there.

Is there any experienced printers out there familiar with this workflow?

Is PDF file in greyscale comparable to say an InDesign format file in greyscale?

Are there any ways to enhance greyscale curves/tones for optimum printing ?

Cheers to all you worldwide creators and printers

Noel
Hong Kong

 

[gordo]

[SNIP]
I'm prepping final artwork for printing a calendar in black and white.

I scanned original prints at greyscale 4000dpi 8 bit -
Created artwork in Ai and converted into PDF file and converted to greyscale there.
[SNIP]
Is PDF file in greyscale comparable to say an InDesign format file in greyscale?

If you scanned in greyscale then what are you converting to greyscale in PDF?

Also, scanning at 4000 dpi is meaningless. You need to have the correct resolution at final reproduction size for the halftone screen frequency that will be used.

More info on that here: Quality In Print: lpi/dpi

best, gordon p

 

[rich apollo]

Noel,
The topic of your thread says this is for digital printing, while the title of your post says this is for offset. Could you clarify?

I'm going to guess that you're trying to offset based on your statement "Will go with 1c (Ultra Black)". Let's start with that statement. I've only ever seen dense blacks used for solid black elements, like type. I don't think you will get the effect you're looking for by running a dense (Ultra) black ink. I would expect that the imagery would look plugged.

2nd point - InDesign does not recognize grayscale colorspaces. For example, if you type a black letter, InDesign designates that as 0C, 0M, 0Y, 100% K.

To optimize your images, preview them through one of the grayscale profiles provided in Photoshop. You'll have to pick the one that is most appropriate based on the paper type the final will be printed on. Make the images look the way you want them to appear in the final print. Let the printer worry about the curves.

 

[gordo]

....and make sure you see a sample of your printer's 1/C greyscale presswork on the same (or close to) paper that you've selected for your job so that you have a better expectation of the result you'll get.

best, gordo

 

[esmith214]

It's difficult to reproduce grayscale photography with only one ink, whether digital or offset. Even mediocre photos have a much larger tone range than any single ink. The best I've worked on was done with four inks, two blacks and two grays. That's a bit extreme for anything but art reproduction. However, even a duotone with black and gray will provide a much better reproduction.

 

[B&WMan]

Hi Guys
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the knowledge.

FYI: Im printing photographs with type for a calendar. Thus the quest to ensure richness in the black and white imagery I have chosen. Greyscale has it's limits...Im trying to push them.

richappollo, Yes it is offset printing for final approved image (they will show me a mock up in digital) what should i be looking for here in the mock up digital? Representation of the actual image as I made it originally? I guess there will be variations from digital to offset..

My workflow went like this:

- I scanned 35mm negative film on Nikon 9000 saved as Greyscale 8bit and adjusted curves, dodge/burnt in Photoshop.
- Artwork was then compiled in Illustrator - that left me with final artwork in cmyk
which I then had to reconvert back to greyscale in Acrobat.

Gordo,
- Check on your paper advice - I have a paper close to the final paper on digital test
- Greyscale conversion , I did not want to have to convert the final image from what it once was and would like to avoid this step....my designer is working in AI, has no know greyscale setting that I can find. I have been advised to set in cmyk with 100% blacks.

Any variation on that which you know of?

Esmith214 - Interesting your greyscale comment...And it's primarily a budget issue and a quest for me to achive black and white in its purest form (idealist!!!)
What did you print that looked great on the duo black and duo grey? Can I see a comparative example that you may have?

Cheers!!!

I see a mock up on Tuesday here in Hong Kong, so I will develop variations in the next three days to find the final artwork

All the best, feel free to offer your wisdom!!!

Noel

 

[WharfRat]

I would have scanned the images in high bit RGB
worked with the channels in Photoshop
and then converted that file to grayscale of the appropriate profile.
Letting the scanner decide how to make grayscale is a crapshoot.
Meanwhile - more reliable results would be obtained by
building the file in Black and tints of Black
rather than making an (intelligent?) guess with Acrobat.

MSD

 

[bprint_tampabay]

too complicated

too complicated

I am admittedly old school... but why are you going through all these hoops to create a B&W image?...

If indeed you are printing a greyscale image then you have 256 levels of tone to deal with, no more and no less.

why are you involving an illustrator cmyk file and then re-converting via acrobat to a greyscale image?

to me, YIKES!

I am going to go back to my darkroom now, I think my fix needs some hardener... I have some halftones to shoot...

Larry

 

[B&WMan]

Mmmm
Mixed response from the question and Im no nearer to obtaining a quality print...
Thanks for all your help:
bprint_tampabay - yeah, good luck in the darkroom mate - personally, i don't tend to use hardener in my fix as i like to tone thereafter.
If you read the thread then you'll see I'm trying to avoid the hoop jumping and asking for relevant info to do that.....

Wharfrat - I did not let the scanner decide - I controlled the levels and curves and was recommended to scan in greyscale to achieve optimum tone via nikon 9000...
There is a marked difference Greyscale V RGB scans de-saturated....
Guess Im looking for the real range of greyscales

 

[bprint_tampabay]

Sorry if you got offended.

I was just intending to bring to light that this is a fairly simple issue, and it can be overthought.

why don't you send me a sample scan, and I will see if I can improve it for you.

 

[B&WMan]

Hi Larry,
Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts, it's appreciated.
No offense taken.
It would appear to be straightforward, i agree, though it's not developing that way.
My scans are fine, Im happy with them and have tested different options...RGB scanning V greyscale.
The crux of the problem is maintaining their integrity through the tricky (Photoshop/AI/PDF) path to deliver them to the printer and then have his obstacles and adjustments to contend with.

cheers from Asia
Noel

 

[bprint_tampabay]

B&W Man-

Thanks for the reply -

I guess what I was trying to say was that if you are happy with what you have on your end, the fact that it is a "greyscale" image, there shouldn't be the many obstacles to overcome.

If it is a matter of final "curves" or "levels" that your printer requires, why not simply ask him what he needs?

Cheers from the USA mate

 

[Screamingbeaver]

I've had great deals of success by started out with the RGB scan, and then converting it to LAB.... then using the Lightness Channel as my grayscale image. The idea is that you are trying to obtain a very crisp and high contrast image... My two cents...

 

[leokor]

2nd point - InDesign does not recognize grayscale colorspaces. For example, if you type a black letter, InDesign designates that as 0C, 0M, 0Y, 100% K.

InDesign CS4 does recognize grayscale colorspaces. It even recognizes "Grayscale + Spot" (although, sadly, not "Duotone + Spot"; well, officially it does, but it doesn't work).

Leo

 

[gordo]

To B&WMan,

It would be great if you could post one of your greyscale images. A lowish resolution would be fine since we're looking at the tone scale rather than the detail.
Something like the size of this greyscale image (hosted on Photobucket):

best, gordon p

 

[rich apollo]

- Artwork was then compiled in Illustrator - that left me with final artwork in cmyk
which I then had to reconvert back to greyscale in Acrobat.

The trip through Illustrator should not have changed your color mode. Something is not right in this step.

 

[johnnyba]

I would be scanning RGB, adjusting and converting to gray in Photoshop and output using the appropriate profile. I would not let InDesign or Acrobat handle color conversion.

 

[Digital Scans]

Photoshop

Photoshop

Do all of your work in Photoshop before you do your PDF's.